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Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:58 pm

What's everyone's assembly lube of choice for cam & lifter break in?

Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:17 pm

Old school white lithium grease. The kind to claim more zinc than others. I believe I read that advice in Tom Wilson's book. It's not the brand but the composition of the grease.

Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:59 pm

This cam lube is thick and contains ZDDP

http://www.cam-shield.com/acatalog/CamShaft_Assembly_Paste.html

Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:47 pm

Camshaft break-in molly lube... Most major cam manufacturers include it in the new camshaft kit, but a lot of the VW stuff doesn't for some reason? FLAPS should be able to get it.

Not only that but filling the crankcase with a Zinc/ZDDP rich engine oil is a MUST (I personally use Castrol HD30 - one of the only cheap easily found oils with zinc in it still - diesel stuff used to be good until they reduced the zinc - dang emissions!)

The initial startup and run procedure is probably as important or more important - you've got to have the engine set to run with minimal cranking so you don't wipe off most of the lube cranking it over trying to start it up. Run for 15-20 minutes at 2k RPM, let cool, run 1500 again for 5 minutes, then go out and bed in the rings.

I've built plenty of flat tappet engines with this break in procedure and never had a cam fail - even with the big solid lifter circle track engines I didn't have a failure when there was an epidemic of flat lobes on cams...

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:09 pm

This is such a critical issue that most aftermarket cams come with a tube of their choice. Same with the oils as cam grinders will encourage a certain lube. I re-installed a Web-Cams regrind of the stock cam and lifters and they included their coating and ok'd me using Shell Rotella 30wt diesel oil. They wanted me to use the Brad Penn 30wt but I could not find it here in Los Angeles. A couple of decades ago Gene Berg use to ok the use of STP oil treatment but since this cam/lifter mess specialty items have been developed. I'm guessing the STP trick would be ok for a stock cam/lifters even with mild spring increases.
I think it is ludicrous to have to mail order or drive way outa my way for an oil for stock or mild engines. But as things change or evolve this may change. The new oils out there say "backward compatible" but I'm not buying that for our stuff.
Hope this helps, Bill.

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:37 pm

For cam lobes and lifter faces I used the red cam lube that came with the Engle cam. And liberal use of Lubriplate 105 Assembly Grease on bearing, pins, gears, etc. It's a real nice convient texture white grease. Also filled the pumps suction side with it for quick priming. Don't remember for sure but might have used G.M.'s E.O.S. on rings, cylinders and pistons. Used just white grease and oil on the other engine. Without knowing how long after building that the engine would sit before starting the white grease stays in place without running out.
Initial startup and and cam run in for the 20 minutes at 2,000 RPM. That's per both Engle and Tom Wilson's great book. Then while still hot draining the oil to get the initial wear particles out of there. the valves need adjustment again after the first few minutes so valves, timing, tuning, oil, and then out for the ring seating proceedure that Tom Wilson describes. That proceedure works fantastic. Within 5 or ten miles I went for emissions testing and passed totally fantastic with both engines. Maybe a tad bit of initial oil consumption but absolutely none after 100 miles or so.

Not sure what brand of white grease the first engine had but it did sit for quite a while before starting. With the first oil drain there were litle gobs of slimy white grease. The Lubriplate didn't do that. Hopefully it will be many many more years before tearing them down for inspection. It's already starting on the 14 year for the 1st engine.

Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:04 pm

Thanks for all the great advice guys. One other question though - after the initial 20 minute cam break in with the zinc-rich oil (I'll be using the Penn 30wt), do I need to fill again with the same oil or can I now just go on to a standard 30wt or 10w30? I just need to know how many litres of the Brad Penn I should be ordering.

Thanks!

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:00 pm

AB westy nut wrote: Thanks for all the great advice guys. One other question though - after the initial 20 minute cam break in with the zinc-rich oil (I'll be using the Penn 30wt), do I need to fill again with the same oil or can I now just go on to a standard 30wt or 10w30? I just need to know how many litres of the Brad Penn I should be ordering.

Thanks!

What's worked for me: - I run a zinc rich oil in everything I have that is flat tappet especially without catalytic converters. Castrol HD30 still has ZDDP and can be found at almost every FLAPS, Walmart, etc. Also Valvoline "racing" oils have a good amount of the zinc for cam wear and is at about 1/2 the local parts stores around here. Brad Penn is nice oil but not readily available around here (I think there is one shop that carries it for the circle track guys). Brad Penn oil used to be Kendall's racing line of oil (competed with Valvoline and penzoil's racing oils) - think it was called "GT1".

You really need the zinc/phosporous to help the lifter rotate across the cam face and provide the film strength that a flat tappet cam really needs - I run any one of the above oils since they are easy to find and not any more expensive than lesser quality oils so there's no reason not to run them.

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:18 pm

Ok, so you just run the Castrol HD30 all the time them. That makes sense. I can get that at Walmart here for about $6/L.

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:24 pm

AB westy nut wrote: Ok, so you just run the Castrol HD30 all the time them. That makes sense. I can get that at Walmart here for about $6/L.

Yep and if you need a little more for the heat of summer (if there is really such a thing up there :lol: ) they make a HD40 but it's a little harder to find....

Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:25 pm

Regarding the use of Castrol's 30 or 40 wt oils, they used to be rich in the AW additives but they are now spec'd as a SM oil. Castrol put out a bulletin a couple years ago stating their popular GTX oil was NOT recommended for classic cars with flat tappet cams.
The bottom line is use what the cam grinder says. For a stock cam, the diesel oils don't have to meet the stringent reduction specs.
Bill

Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:15 pm

I use Castrol 10W-40 or 20W-50 with a half bottle of G.M. EOS with my 5-3/4 quart oil change.

Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:39 pm

Desertbusman wrote: I use Castrol 10W-40 or 20W-50 with a half bottle of G.M. EOS with my 5-3/4 quart oil change.

Really! So Desert, you're using the Castrol White bottle GTX oil? I had heard the GM EOS was avail anymore here in Calif.
Bill

Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:31 pm

Quote: Really! So Desert, you're using the Castrol White bottle GTX oil? I had heard the GM EOS was avail anymore here in Calif.

Bill, yes on the white bottle GTX. Been using it forever but maybe should rethink it.
E.O.S. has gone thru a bunch of marketing changes in the past few years. And it wasn't available for a while then it came back. I think it is still the same formulation. E.O.S. is short for Engine Oil Suppliment. And that is what it WAS for. But evidently the government regulations caused GM problems. Now the E.O.S. is labeled Assembly Lube. With instructions on how to use it in engine assembly. And some words about protection against cam lobe and lifter run-in scuffing. (It's rich in zinc, magnesium and the stuff we need for flat tappet cams.)
But it states for use only as specified and NOT for use as an additive to engine oil or the use of any other additive. I think that's for the government and catalytic converter issues. So now it's for a totally different usage but they still call it E.O.S.
It was relatively cheap but now has shot up to $30 a bottle. I get it at the local Chevy dealership. Probably available there in Cali also. For a while folks were forced to get it on Ebay or wherever.

Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:49 pm

Hi bro, thanks for the quick reply. I fully respect your decision on the oil choices. It kinda parallels choice in sport teams, he he. But as a pro tech, I believe that what I use in my personal vehicles is what I would recommend to a customer. And to add a $30, or whatever I could get it for, cost for an oil change is hard to swallow. I know that the GM EOS was extremely popular here on the "left coast" with these tree huggers and all. I'm surprised the drug dealers didn't start selling it in the ghetto!!! He he!
On monday, I may wander over to my GM dealer and see if its the same.

Maybe a similar story here in Calif, a couple years ago, Valvoline Max Life ATF was pulled from the shelves because of "potential" false claims on its label. This atf is a good aft for some late toyota vehicles.

Take care, Bill.

Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:05 am

Yes, oil is a real slippery subject. Only real thing that I've zerroed in on over the years, and am happy with, is the grade. I like 10W-40 year around and also 20W-50 in the summers.
Us old farts, old school technology and old vehicles all lumped together just have a big massive challenge on our hands.
But the very worst place in the whole world is the Samba Oil Topic in the Performance forum. Flip a coin whether to laugh or cry.

Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:41 am

rockerarm wrote: Regarding the use of Castrol's 30 or 40 wt oils, they used to be rich in the AW additives but they are now spec'd as a SM oil. Castrol put out a bulletin a couple years ago stating their popular GTX oil was NOT recommended for classic cars with flat tappet cams.
The bottom line is use what the cam grinder says. For a stock cam, the diesel oils don't have to meet the stringent reduction specs.
Bill

The SM spec doesn't much affect the zinc in straight weight oils, oils with a first number of 15, or higher, or oils with a last number of 40 or higher. It only affects multigrades oils that are 10w-30 or lighter. No promise that a 15-40 or 20-50 will have high ZDDP but if your oil doesn't, it is not due to the SM/SN spec.

BTW Redline sells a ZDDP additive that only takes a tablespoon or two per oil change to bring the ZDDP levels up significantly. A bottle will last quite a few oil changes.

Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:30 am

One thing comes to mind about the oil recommendations at the

AB westy nut wrote: Thanks for all the great advice guys. One other question though - after the initial 20 minute cam break in with the zinc-rich oil (I'll be using the Penn 30wt), do I need to fill again with the same oil or can I now just go on to a standard 30wt or 10w30? I just need to know how many litres of the Brad Penn I should be ordering.

Thanks!

In a cold climate during February - I would run 10w-30 for the initial drive to seat the rings. The only way I'd use straight 30w in February is if I had either a sump heater or a warm garage to store the Bus in before the actual first drive.

Either use a modern oil with a couple of tablespoons of ZDDP additive, as suggested - or - there is always Brad Penn 10w-30 and the even more expensive Amsol Z-Rod.

With regards to the haloed Castro brand, it was bought by BP in 2000. I feel it is safe to say that the contents we buy today in the plastic bottle are a different formulation than what was in the old round metal can during the 1970's.

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:35 am

They did lower the ZDDP in the GTX HD30 but didn't lower as much as the multi-grade oils.

The only shelf stock around here that is more like "the good old days" is the valvoline VR1 'racing' oil still has decent zddp:
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf (I had to double check that it still was formulated with a decent spec'd zddp package)
They also state that it meets SN spec - which means to me that it's got a decent detergent package to match (where some of the racing oils will give up a little cleaning detergent because of the frequent changes associated with motorsports)