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Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:32 pm

I have been wanting to do some metal flake work with gelcoat only and not using a spray booth.

The way the original metal flake was done and the way it is done in the mold is:

1- Spray the mold with a layer of clear gelcoat.
2- Spray in the dry flake.
3- Spray a base color (sometimes black) of gelcoat.
4- Lay up the fiberglass or chopper gun.

Since I already have the part it has to be done in reverse order.

Spray the part with gelcoat (unwaxed) in this case red.

Use a dry spray gun to put dry flake onto the gelcoat, I used a undercoating/bedliner gun with a makeshift bottle to hold the flake.

Spray the flake onto the gelcoat as it starts to cure (still tacky). This allows for almost complete coverage of the panel. Use a gloved hand or wallpaper roller to flatten the flake. After the gelcoat cures use low pressure air to blow off loose flake.

Then spray clear gelcoat over the flake. You will want to add wax/surfacing agent so the clear gelcoat will cure tack free. You could also spray PVA over the clear gelcoat after it starts to cure so you will not need to sand the wax layer off. You can then wet sand and buff it to a mirror shine.

By doing it dry you eliminate the gun clogging and you get complete coverage. If you want to give it more depth you can spray a layer of clear over the flake and as it cures sprinkle some flake over the clear. Do not completely cover it or you defeat the purpose. Then cover with a thick layer of clear gelcoat.

I also think that you could substitute paint and clearcoat for the red gelcoat and clear gelcoat steps.

You could also use a spice/salt shaker to put the flake on and not have to use a modified gun. It will just take a little longer and you will have to rotate part to get full coverage.

When we did my blue Manx we found that the flake tended to bounce off the surface (sprayed from gun in clear coat) and we did not get complete coverage. We also made a huge mess with the flake in the clear coat paint sticking to the floor of the paint booth.(among other things) By doing it dry you can put a tarp under your work and have a fairly easy complete clean up.

I intend to use this method for Rick's emerald green Manx.

Vince

Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:52 pm

That's one way to do it Vince. You could have also simply hand sifted over the tacky surface and used a brush to move the flake around. Blow excess carefully off and patch as needed.
As for the clear coat method.. could be that you may have used either too much air pressure, too little flake in the clear or the wrong gun or a combination. When I did the SR, I used a pressure pot with almost two ounces of flake in the quart of clear. Put a marble in the pot and kept it moving to keep the flake suspended. Just enough pressure to put a fairly heavy coat on without running - but it did take about three passes to get full coverage. My overspray was surprisingly minimal, but yeah, it does get everywhere. I'm still finding single flakes on stuff to this day. Keeping the booth floor wet or the drop cloth is a good option.

Did you have a clear over that door panel? I still see quite a bit of orange peel in there (not picking, just curious).

R

Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:00 pm

Good eyes Rick. I had a bad batch of clear gel coat and only sanded and buffed the area on the right of the panel. The left area still has a lot of "orange peel". It was just a test any way and I do not intend using it. I also only did the top flat horizontal area not the vertical part. (only a test)

I think that you are right with our previous method. We did wet the floor but we got flake everywhere. (They will never let me do another flake job in their booth) :shock:

Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:51 pm

This is why i like this forum.
Good information makes my life easy.
thanks for the info Vince.

Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:44 pm

Vince, are you really going to try and use Food Lion Basil for flake on Rick's green buggy? I may look OK but I think metal flake would look and smell better. Looks good. What color flake goes with Orange? I was thinking that crushed red pepper would give it some cool look.

Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:29 pm

surfnc wrote:
(They will never let me do another flake job in their booth) :shock:

:lol: Neither will my buddy. He's still getting a random flake in his paint jobs to this day - nearly two years later.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:36 am

Moon Buggy
You are welcome! Where are you located in NC? Think about coming to the MOTB in Oct. Here is a link to the fun www.ManxOnTheBanx.com

Roy
I did not think of it that way. :lol: :lol:
Are you thinking about flake for yours?

Rick
Yeah, they don't even talk about it. The flake also clogged their gun cleaning station. :(

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:10 pm

Do you mind showing or describing the gun you use to spray the GelCoat? I read another post where a cheapo spray gun was drilled out - is that what you are doing?

BTW - your work is awesome.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:26 pm

vwalan
Thanks for the kind words. I am using a regular cheap Harbor Freight gun 1.7 tip. I thin the gelcoat with styrene so it sprays through the gun. You can also use Duratec High Gloss additive and spray it through the same gun. You will need to do some testing to get it right with your equipment. But it is not too bad once you get the hang of it.

Vince

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:39 pm

Vince,

You keep giving the secrets away here, and we can all meet at the "Brew Thru" in October.

J

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:25 pm

Flake just makes any color POP. I still remember the colors from Tom and Kathleen's Manxster. It put a whole new meaning to white. I am trying to convince Diane to use flake in orange. What do you think of orange with gold flake?

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:36 pm

Joe
I had thought about that, but hands on will make a difference. I am actually doing this to help me get a step by step together and to see what interest is out there.

Roy
I think "Brilliant Golden Orange" would look nice, if you are going for orange.

http://www.meadowbrookinventions.com/common/pdf/PolyJewels.pdf

By the way I just ordered the "Emerald Green" flake for Rick's Manx and the minimum order is 10lbs. :shock:

You may need 1lb at absolute most to do a buggy. Hopefully I will do some more green flake Manxes in the future.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:25 pm

Always order the sample packs. Judging from a monitor photos is impossible. Mixing is a fun experiment - you'll often wind up with a color that you didn't entirely expect!

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:07 pm

Vince...If I had your skills, everything I own would be metal flake!

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:09 pm

Rick
How much is usually in a sample pack? I know that I need enough for the hood, body and side pods.

Dave
Thanks, that has to be one of the nicest compliments I have ever gotten! :D

By the way if you work with flake a lot of what you own gets covered with it. :lol:

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:04 pm

Sample packs are just that - about a teaspoon size in a little baggie. The tins I have from MetalFlake and House of kolor are both 6oz, though I think you can order as little as 2. Alsa also has sample packs and 2 oz tins, though I haven't been happy with their service lately.

HOK recommends between 1 to 3 ounces of flake per quart of sprayable clear if you're going that direction... My SR took around 18 ounces of flake - I remember going through at least three tins.. it may have been slightly more.. but I got 100% coverage over a black base in about four coats. I have a bunch of colors if you want little samples to play with, just let me know!

Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:05 pm

Interesting that you did a reversed gelcoat procedure. Kudos!

Is it blotchy at all?

We spray our flake the old fashioned way, in the clear. Mix in sg100 or a similar intercoat carrier. Spray silver flake over silver base. Wetsand. Bury in final clear. Candy colors over silver flake if desired. All done with regular spray guns with varying tips.

See my build thread in my sig for pics! :)

Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:50 pm

Eryk
All I can say is wow! You do very nice work!

To answer your question, it is not blotchy at all. Since it is sticking to the wet gelcoat it has uniform coverage like you would have in the mold.

Here is a link to my previous build where we did it similar to the way you do it. (just not as awesome)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=255954&highlight=obx

I found that if I dinged it (like dropping a shovel on it) it would take all the layers of clear off. I think that this is because the fiberglass gave more that the clear and "popped" off the area that was impacted. I do not think this would happen with a steel car panel since if it gave it would give at the same rate as the clear.

I am also used to working with polyester which is why I am going this way with my current project.

Vince