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Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:46 pm

nemobuscaptain wrote: We were discussing this on Full Moon Bus Club but the newer Gates is now J30R14T2 certified (high pressure up to 225 psi)

Part No. 27340

225 psi working pressure rating (best-in-class).
Aramid reinforcement spiral braid for superior burst strength.
Exceeds SAE J3OR14T2 as well as low-permeation requirements for CARB.
Approved for use with Gasoline, Ethanol/Gasoline blends (gasohol) such as E10, E15 or E85, Diesel, Biodiesel including soybean methyl ester (SME), rapeseed methyl ester (RME), palm methyl ester (PME), Biodiesel/Diesel blends such as B20, and 100% Methanol
Temperature: -40 Deg. F to 257 Deg. F (-40 Deg. C to 125 Deg. C) continuous, up to 302 Deg. F (150 Deg. C) intermittent.

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/gates-premium-...ade%205/16

I think if you look at the hose you will find it also carries a SAE J30r9 rating as that is what means it is suitable for use with the pressure seen in the fuel injection system. If it only had the 30r14T2 rating it would handle much less pressure, something like 50 psi.

Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:56 pm

Wildthings wrote: nemobuscaptain wrote: We were discussing this on Full Moon Bus Club but the newer Gates is now J30R14T2 certified (high pressure up to 225 psi)

Part No. 27340

225 psi working pressure rating (best-in-class).
Aramid reinforcement spiral braid for superior burst strength.
Exceeds SAE J3OR14T2 as well as low-permeation requirements for CARB.
Approved for use with Gasoline, Ethanol/Gasoline blends (gasohol) such as E10, E15 or E85, Diesel, Biodiesel including soybean methyl ester (SME), rapeseed methyl ester (RME), palm methyl ester (PME), Biodiesel/Diesel blends such as B20, and 100% Methanol
Temperature: -40 Deg. F to 257 Deg. F (-40 Deg. C to 125 Deg. C) continuous, up to 302 Deg. F (150 Deg. C) intermittent.

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/gates-premium-...ade%205/16

I think if you look at the hose you will find it also carries a SAE J30r9 rating as that is what means it is suitable for use with the pressure seen in the fuel injection system. If it only had the 30r14T2 rating it would handle much less pressure, something like 50 psi.
I don't think so. The J30R14 is 50 psi. The J30R14T2 is very high pressure, like 200 psi plus.

Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:53 am

nemobuscaptain wrote:
I don't think so. The J30R14 is 50 psi. The J30R14T2 is very high pressure, like 200 psi plus.

I thought that once as well, but now admit I was wrong. The SAE and Gates seemed to have been jealous of the confusing BS that the Tire and Rim association gets away with and decided to come up with standards that are just as apt to confuse. It is my understanding at this point that the difference between J30r14T1 and J30r14T2 is the temperature rating of the hose and has nothing to do with the pressure capabilities of the hose. It is the J30r9 rating that you need for higher pressure applications.

Apparently Dayco has chosen to be more honest with their advertising:

Quote: "The Dayco? Dayperm? II Hose is a multi-layered rubber hose with low permeation, recommended for carburetion applications on small engines and older carbureted vehicles using liquid fuels. This hose meets all SAE J30R14T2 requirements and is CARB and EPA compliant. This Dayperm? II Hose is compatible with leaded, unleaded, and gasohol fuels as well as bio-diesel fuel and ethanol blended gasoline. This hose is another Dayco? product proudly made in the USA."

As to my reference to the Tire and Rim association the Maximum Cold Inflation Pressure written on the side of every tire out there is actually the MINIMUM Cold Inflation Pressure if you are running the maximum rated load and driving at high speeds, but if you dive far enough into their literature the TRA admits that they don't want to tell you the truth as you might find knowing how much air pressure you should be putting in your tires to be confusing?????

Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:49 am

just tossing in 2 cents worth. All I know is that the Gates Barricade comes in at least two pressure ratings. The pressure rating is stamped on them. One reads 50 PSI, and the other 225 PSI. I use the 225 PSI hose everywhere on the bus that fuel is involved.

Quote: as you might find knowing how much air pressure you should be putting in your tires to be confusing?????
Mike - There is an engineering standards group ETRTO that makes the charts tire and car manufacturers use. Basically one takes the specs of the tire, the weight on the tire, and the speeds involved to pick a tire pressure.

Example - My MDX is labeled at 35 PSI but it is too harsh there. My dealer recommends 32 PSI for a softer ride. Below are the calculations I went thru to be sure that is safe, and it is for around town but not at full load at freeway speeds. Basically the tires will support 1741 lbs each at 65 mph or less. At 32 PSI they have a max of 1556 lbs on them so at 32 PSI the tire is operating at only 90% of capacity. This assumes one has an accurate tire pressure gauge which most do not. I have a 1% WIKI gauge used to read tire pressure. Most tire gauges are 5% to 20% error.

Quote: 32 PSI Tire Pressure Calc based on ETRTO Tables
For Daily Driver <= 65 mph
Michelin 245/55/19 103H 8” wide rim
Load 103, H=130 MPH
Curb 4270 lb / GVRW 5368 lb
At GVRW 58%/42% = 1556 lb/1106 lb single tire
32 PSI = 2.2 bar = 790 kg = max 1741 lbs single tire
Which is 90% of ETRTO max using ETRTO Calc/tables
Use 35/35 PSI for any high-speed long trips

Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:54 pm

Wildthings wrote: I thought that once as well, but now admit I was wrong. The SAE and Gates seemed to have been jealous of the confusing BS that the Tire and Rim association gets away with and decided to come up with standards that are just as apt to confuse. It is my understanding at this point that the difference between J30r14T1 and J30r14T2 is the temperature rating of the hose and has nothing to do with the pressure capabilities of the hose. It is the J30r9 rating that you need for higher pressure applications.

Apparently Dayco has chosen to be more honest with their advertising:

Quote: "The Dayco? Dayperm? II Hose is a multi-layered rubber hose with low permeation, recommended for carburetion applications on small engines and older carbureted vehicles using liquid fuels. This hose meets all SAE J30R14T2 requirements and is CARB and EPA compliant. This Dayperm? II Hose is compatible with leaded, unleaded, and gasohol fuels as well as bio-diesel fuel and ethanol blended gasoline. This hose is another Dayco? product proudly made in the USA."
I learned long ago not to doubt WT.

But doesn't the R14 have a much more stringent vapor permeation standard? Id think we'd definitely want both higher pressure and better vapor barrier standards for our FI and carbed busses.

Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:38 pm

The Gates Barricade has an impermeable layer that stops the migration of fuel thru it. Other neoprene fuel lines let the fuel evaporate thru the hose. You can smell it. Gates makes it in 50 PSI and 225 PSI versions.

78 and 79 buses had more steel fuel lines in places that were flexible in 1977 and earlier. FI buses need the 225 PSI line between the fuel pump and FPR. They can use 50 PSI between the tank and the filter, and for the return line.

Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:41 pm

nemobuscaptain wrote:
But doesn't the R14 have a much more stringent vapor permeation standard? Id think we'd definitely want both higher pressure and better vapor barrier standards for our FI and carbed busses.

The J30r14T1 and J30r14T2 are the permeation standards. I think the difference in the -T1 and -T2 are the temperature rating for the hose, but am not sure. The J30r9 is the spec for the 225psi fuel injection hose. The last Gates Barricade 225 psi hose I bought had both the J30r14 and J30r9 specs written on the hose, while the low pressure 50 psi hose carries only the J30r14 spec.

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:06 am

SGKent wrote: The Gates Barricade has an impermeable layer that stops the migration of fuel thru it. Other neoprene fuel lines let the fuel evaporate thru the hose. You can smell it. Gates makes it in 50 PSI and 225 PSI versions.
Do you know the actual Gates part number (5-digit number) for the 255 psi stuff?

Is it Gates 27339?

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:28 am

jtauxe wrote: SGKent wrote: The Gates Barricade has an impermeable layer that stops the migration of fuel thru it. Other neoprene fuel lines let the fuel evaporate thru the hose. You can smell it. Gates makes it in 50 PSI and 225 PSI versions.
Do you know the actual Gates part number (5-digit number) for the 255 psi stuff?

Is it Gates 27339?
you mean 225 PSI 5/16th inch? The make multiple sizes. Also they sell it in packages that are a couple feet, 15' and by the foot. Each has a different part number. Napa and O'Reillys for example also use a different numbering system. If you Google it, the part should show that it is FI hose, Gates Barricade, and is 225 PSI.

Example https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBGH348A FYI Napa matched the O'Reilly's price.

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:40 am

This fuel line is deceiving to the eye, it looks like ordinary fuel line but is not as others have said.
For a dual carb set up I bought 5/16'' or 8 mm gates Barricade 225 psi On the spool is # 27340 and 4219-5968

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:49 am

John -

NAPA Auto Parts CEM Enterprises
201 Knecht St
Los Alamos, NM 87544
(505) 662-9743

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBGH348A

My receipt 9/24/2020 from the local Napa reads Fuel Injection NBH H349A 15' @ $5.69 . The hose will show 225 PSI on it and the CARB and EPA info repetitively, and if you look at the end you will see a thin green line in the middle of it where the barrier is. I am replacing it while the engine is out on general good practices but the stuff I have on the bus is still quite good. It is outstanding hose.

Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:15 am

https://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/documents/gat/gatesbarricade4page.pdf