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Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:12 am

I wanted to add this thought to my earlier post but the edit was blocked (too old of post)

Someone said just buy a converted van if you're unsure of doing the conversion. I think this thought helps support the Zetec.
When looking at used vans with conversions, unless the install was done by one of the big converters, the Zetec has the advantage because of it's single source. All the Zetec's are Bostig conversions done to a single plan. (although I will say that the plan has changed some with changes in architecture) And that plan is available online. All the part numbers are listed.
With all the different Suburu suppliers and all the different ways the conversions have been done, there's a bigger chance of confusion for the new owner.

Even with an conversion from a reputable installer, there is no online source of all the parts and the plan of install available. With the Bostig/Zetec you can source the info anywhere in the world

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:23 am

MsTaboo wrote: I wanted to add this thought to my earlier post but the edit was blocked (too old of post)

Someone said just buy a converted van if you're unsure of doing the conversion. I think this thought helps support the Zetec.
When looking at used vans with conversions, unless the install was done by one of the big converters, the Zetec has the advantage because of it's single source. All the Zetec's are Bostig conversions done to a single plan. (although I will say that the plan has changed some with changes in architecture) And that plan is available online. All the part numbers are listed.
With all the different Suburu suppliers and all the different ways the conversions have been done, there's a bigger chance of confusion for the new owner.

Even with an conversion from a reputable installer, there is no online source of all the parts and the plan of install available. With the Bostig/Zetec you can source the info anywhere in the world

IMHO, that is a very strong argument.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:30 am

dixoncj wrote: MsTaboo wrote: I wanted to add this thought to my earlier post but the edit was blocked (too old of post)

Someone said just buy a converted van if you're unsure of doing the conversion. I think this thought helps support the Zetec.
When looking at used vans with conversions, unless the install was done by one of the big converters, the Zetec has the advantage because of it's single source. All the Zetec's are Bostig conversions done to a single plan. (although I will say that the plan has changed some with changes in architecture) And that plan is available online. All the part numbers are listed.
With all the different Suburu suppliers and all the different ways the conversions have been done, there's a bigger chance of confusion for the new owner.

Even with an conversion from a reputable installer, there is no online source of all the parts and the plan of install available. With the Bostig/Zetec you can source the info anywhere in the world

IMHO, that is a very strong argument.
And bad too, at the same time.

Bad because it IS a single source item.

Single source violates a very important and practical supply chain rule.

This as bitten me in the behind in the past, buyer beware!

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:34 am

True dat - by purchasing a Bostig conversion, we are assuming that Bostig stays in business. By purchasing a Bostig conversion, we are also, ensuring that Bostig stays in business. They seem pretty well entrenched.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:40 am

Bostig Zero419 wrote:
Reliability it great, power is so-so.
Heard that more than once.

I have no interest in swaying a potential swapper's mind(or stock guy) one way or another but do your homework and drive one or several if you are able.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:43 am

dixoncj wrote: True dat - by purchasing a Bostig conversion, we are assuming that Bostig stays in business. By purchasing a Bostig conversion, we are also, ensuring that Bostig stays in business. They seem pretty well entrenched.
Means scant little these days....

Look at all the companies changing hands and so on. It *IS* tough to keep a small business open these days.

If they were to fold or cease to support this conversion, likely, as for other things, some how the slack will be taken up. Witness the Tico, as an example.

This is just another tick box in the comparison table.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:47 am

syncrodoka wrote: Bostig Zero419 wrote:
Reliability it great, power is so-so.
Heard that more than once.

I have no interest in swaying a potential swapper's mind(or stock guy) one way or another but do your homework and drive one or several if you are able.

I drove a Bostig in a friend's 87 Westy. Waaaay more power than the 2.1 in my 91 and the higher revs meant more useable power too. All that I reckon I'd need - particularly given the reliability.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:50 am

Have you driven all of the options including a tencent motor?
Keep your mind open to all of the options and your best will be apparent.

My conversion always runs...just like the wbx. Reliability is often(but not always) in the hands of who maintains it good or bad...

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:57 am

As far as Bostig going out of business, there aren't that many Bostig only parts in the conversion and those parts are pretty simple and not prone to wearing out.
The online part will remain, and/or you can (should) download the complete instructions and keep with the van.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:22 am

FWIW, I love my Bostig. Great power, the van zips around with ease, and I can pass people, keep up with traffic, or just cruise. I have the older conversion too, the newer ones, with the new cradle are that much better.

Ford 4cylinders are damn near bulletproof with simple maintenance, and parts are plentiful world-wide. The parts that are Bostig specific could be repaired by any metal worker, just like on any other engine conversion.
Bostig is a great business, customer service second to none, and I don't see them closing shop anytime soon. They have found and developed something nobody else produces, and are continually adding more. Even if they did shut down shop, I don't see people having much problem with the components of the swap anyway. Most problems, if any, are going to be from an engine.

Plus , the Ford Zetec is easy to work on, but if you're not mechaically inclined, most mechanics are going to be familiar with it.

Quick story about Ford 4cyls. Cruising around with a buddy in his vehicle equipped with a 4 cyl. I hear a slight knocking type sound coming from the engine. We stop for gas, and I ask him when was the last time you changed your oil. Answer - "Year or so" WTF, so he checked it, no oil on dip-stick. Added a quart, still nothing. I think he put in 3 qts. He is still driving that car today, with the same vehicle maintenance mentality as before. I know not all Ford 4cyl are the same, but they've been stamping them out for years, and you constantly see the vehicles that have them fall apart before the engine. That's enough to convince me.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:37 pm

SpeedoJosh wrote: Quick story about Ford 4cyls. Cruising around with a buddy in his vehicle equipped with a 4 cyl. I hear a slight knocking type sound coming from the engine. We stop for gas, and I ask him when was the last time you changed your oil. Answer - "Year or so" WTF, so he checked it, no oil on dip-stick. Added a quart, still nothing. I think he put in 3 qts. He is still driving that car today, with the same vehicle maintenance mentality as before. I know not all Ford 4cyl are the same, but they've been stamping them out for years, and you constantly see the vehicles that have them fall apart before the engine. That's enough to convince me.

I did just about the same thing last year with my EJ22. Long trip home from Crested Butte, heavy ticking from valve train, found that I was ~3qts low (in a 4.2qt system). Changed oil, kept driving, no noticeable issues. And that was probably 5000mi ago (with a long midwest road trip in there too). Obviously this DOES mean that I have oil consumption issues, but it's only when at upper hwy speeds in the heat - and it was a $275 motor... now with ~185kmi on it

Save some headgaket issues with some variations ofh the EJ series, it is a very robust setup. We have LOTS of old and abused subabrus around here - they just keep going!
no knock on the ford 4cyl, I think they make a good motor as well

Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:42 pm

Al Gilliland wrote: Have a 1988 westy I would like to put a new engine in. What's the thoughts these days..A 2.5 subie or a Zetec

Cheers
Al

All you really need to do is ask yourself one question. Do I want the look and sound of a boxer engine, or that of an inline four. Just make your decisions based on aesthetics. Its easier to decide that way. Otherwise you have two options that or both great. Two pancake or not to pancake, that is the question.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:51 pm

I've owned dozens of flat four engines, and can't really fathom why they continue to exist. It's an archaic and overly complicated design leftover from a bygone era. Inline engines are easier to service, both for small and major work tasks. Boxers are the platypus of evolutionary engine development. Weird, funny looking and ultimately doomed to terminal extinction. Embrace the future with gusto.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:16 pm

I like em ! I would like a corvair engine. I am strongly influenced by esthetics though. if I had an air cooled vanagon I would defiantly look into a corvair engine swap. not saying it's the smart thing to do though.

I wonder how much esthetics weigh in peoples engine choice. seems like logic plays a small role in deciding what to do...my wbx served me well and I will not bash it. by far the most logical thing for me to do would have been to keep the wbx a few more years and order a 10 cent engine to replace it when needed.

the H6 looks fantastic and is fun to drive though.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:33 pm

Zeitgeist 13 wrote: Embrace the future with gusto.

If embracing the future means installing a tall, narrow inline 4 into a Vanagon's low and wide engine bay, I'll stick with the past Casey. Say what you want about horizontally opposed fours, but they do have a significant edge in terms of smoothness, overall weight, and installation height for a rear engined vehicle.

I try to keep quiet about what I do and don't prefer in terms of engine conversions because I don't think badmouthing certain types of engines and conversions on this forum is polite, helpful or productive, but I will say that I am personally much happier with engines in these vans that fit the intended space properly without having to be mounted super low to clear the lid, or have the lid raised way up. For that reason I am glad there are some good flat four engine choices out there.

David

Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:56 pm

For years I was a diehard airhead. I lived and breathed all manner of stock and hopped up flat fours. Then I caught a whiff of diesel in the form of a Rabbit diesel that was practically given to me with 250k on the clock. I was intrigued with this odd new creature, learning my way around such bizarre construction and packaging. Everything was different, yet intuitively placed and easy to maintain...unlike split head designs. Exhaust=simple, with a single point of contact. Need to do a quicky "rebuild"? Sure, no problem. Pop the pan and head and do rings n' rod bearings...while it's still in the car. Longitudinal placements like Audis and Dashers were even easier. I was swayed by actual honest to goodness hand's on experience that trumped sentimentality and clever arrangement. What you choose to play with is your own bidness, but I've come home to embrace the fact that inline is in fact a superior design. This thread is focused on two examples, and I choose neither, but if forced I'd opt for the inline every time.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:06 pm

Please remember that Volkswagen itself gave up the flat four and went with an inline engine in the last generation of Vanagons produced in S.A. until 2002.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:26 pm

Zeitgeist 13 wrote: For years I was a diehard airhead. I lived and breathed all manner of stock and hopped up flat fours. Then I caught a whiff of diesel in the form of a Rabbit diesel that was practically given to me with 250k on the clock. I was intrigued with this odd new creature, learning my way around such bizarre construction and packaging. Everything was different, yet intuitively placed and easy to maintain...unlike split head designs. Exhaust=simple, with a single point of contact. Need to do a quicky "rebuild"? Sure, no problem. Pop the pan and head and do rings n' rod bearings...while it's still in the car. Longitudinal placements like Audis and Dashers were even easier. I was swayed by actual honest to goodness hand's on experience that trumped sentimentality and clever arrangement. What you choose to play with is your own bidness, but I've come home to embrace the fact that inline is in fact a superior design. This thread is focused on two examples, and I choose neither, but if forced I'd opt for the inline every time.

I can appreciate your positive experiences with modern inline fours, but you're basing your impressions of flat fours on air cooled VW engines. A modern Subaru flat four doesn't share any of those drawbacks. Aside from packaging advantages, the Subaru 2.5 has one major thing in it's favor, and that's ample normally aspirated power and torque. To match the 165 hp and 166 torque of an EJ25 you'd have to go to forced induction with a VW or Ford inline four due to their small 2.0 liter size. This adds a lot of complexity, extra equipment, and heat to the engine bay. For a vehicle like a Vanagon, keeping things normally aspirated and simple is a good thing.

D

Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:06 am

MsTaboo wrote: I wanted to add this thought to my earlier post but the edit was blocked (too old of post)

Someone said just buy a converted van if you're unsure of doing the conversion. I think this thought helps support the Zetec.
When looking at used vans with conversions, unless the install was done by one of the big converters, the Zetec has the advantage because of it's single source. All the Zetec's are Bostig conversions done to a single plan. (although I will say that the plan has changed some with changes in architecture) And that plan is available online. All the part numbers are listed.
With all the different Suburu suppliers and all the different ways the conversions have been done, there's a bigger chance of confusion for the new owner.

Even with an conversion from a reputable installer, there is no online source of all the parts and the plan of install available. With the Bostig/Zetec you can source the info anywhere in the world

Not true. I purchased everything for my engine conversion, except engine, from RMW. Also, if I every sell my van it will come with the instruction booklet supplied by RMW. Sure it's not video's online but it got the job done and was easy to follow.

I will hand it to the guy's at Bostig for pushing the whole DIY conversion kits. I think they have a great product but it just wasn't for me. In fact I found some of their videos to be helpful, like the engine removal.

Like others have said I think one should really do their own research and decide what's best for them and their van.

Matt

Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:33 am

dixoncj wrote: syncrodoka wrote: Bostig Zero419 wrote:
Reliability it great, power is so-so.
Heard that more than once.

I have no interest in swaying a potential swapper's mind(or stock guy) one way or another but do your homework and drive one or several if you are able.

I drove a Bostig in a friend's 87 Westy. Waaaay more power than the 2.1 in my 91 and the higher revs meant more useable power too. All that I reckon I'd need - particularly given the reliability.

I must have done something wrong when I did mine.