TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:16 am

we are having trouble with lucy high up in santa fe, we are at 7000 feet, since we got up here we have had a lack of power
i have had a search, and cannot see anything there relating to tuning the engine to make it run happier
i have seen a couple of vanagons up here, and i'm sure they run OK if they live here

any idea's as to how i tune the engine for this altitude

we had hoped to go towards colorado, at this point she won't make it over the hills :(

Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:21 am

7,000 ft will make a naturally aspirated engine operate at about 80-85% power. If that is what you are experiencing, then that's the cost of tea in China. If you are experiencing a more significant power loss than that, then you have a problem. Is the tailpipe blackened? O2 sensor might be bad and not compensating for the altitude and the cat could be plugging. Temp sensor can do similar.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:05 pm

Where is your timing set? With no MAP sensor your system will not automatically try to correct timing and fuel for altitude. Advancing the timing a 2-3 degrees beyond what you run a sea level will often buy you a bit more power.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:10 pm

Wildthings wrote: Where is your timing set? With no MAP sensor your system will not automatically try to correct timing and fuel for altitude. Advancing the timing a 2-3 degrees beyond what you run a sea level will often buy you a bit more power.

What he said. At 7,000 feet, I like to give it 2º more advance (to ~ 30º BTDC), but you will need to re-time it to about 28º BTDC as you get back under 5,000 feet.

I like New Mexico!

Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:36 pm

This is one of the reasons why boosted engines are so desirable

Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:21 pm

High altitude can rob your engine of power as described by the others above. I agree you can sefely add ignition advance to recover some power. This is only doable because the thin air reduces the chance of knock occurring. Once in the lower elevations, you will need to re-adjust ignition timing or use premium gas.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:32 pm

its the altitude

I lived in Santa Fe with a Syncro Westy powered by a 2.2 Subaru. I thought the motor was a total dog, I got passed by Semi Trucks on the way up to Flagstaff. When I moved to sea level I began to understand why people like that motor..

each 1000 feet costs you 3.5% of your power, so you are running about 24.5% below normal power levels.

not much you can do.

even my TDi is a DOG at 9000 feet coming off a stop. The boost does not come on until after 1800 rpm. I had to use Granny Gear to leave stop signs, at sea level 1st works awesome..

since you are there, I suggest you accept that 3rd gear and 4500 rpm are your friends when going uphill.. dont be afraid to run your tach above the green zone.

One of my favorite places to drive in Santa Fe, is up to the Ski Area. You will be in 2nd gear most of the way. Before you reach the top there is a beautiful pull out, with a toilet and creeks and aspens, called Big Tesuque.

In town, I recommend you stop by The CowGirl, a restaurant and locals bar near the railyard.. The food is great.

You can do Colorado, just not in 4th gear :-)

like others said, use regular gas at altitudes above 5000 feet.. Premium wont help you at altitude

Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:50 pm

I know how you feel.

Vail Pass (11k feet) at 25-30 MPH is a way of life with a 1.9. I've done it with three of them. I've found that other cars can see you from a mile away and they tend to plan accordingly. Also use the pullout lanes liberally; you're not in a hurry, so a quick stop won't hurt anything.

Enjoy the scenery (as soon as that next semi finishes passing you.) :D

Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:52 pm

:bay_blue: I live at 7,000 feet And thought my 2.3 just went OK still better than my 1.9. Wow then went to BBB at 500 feet thought I had a turbo! :D

Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:56 pm

rubbachicken wrote: we had hoped to go towards colorado, at this point she won't make it over the hills :(

Pfft - Santa Fe is nothing. Just wait til you get to Colorado and spend 45min in 2nd gear trying to get up Wolf Creek Pass

And FYI - Once you're in the Rockies - they're called MOUNTAINS - not hills. That's why you're having difficulties. :)

Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:21 am

so i've been out looking at lucy's motor
i have given it about 2° advance, it sounds a little better
i compression tested the motor at 7000'

# 1 ~ 112 psi
# 2 ~ 119psi
# 3 ~ 75 psi
# 4 ~ 129 psi

last time i compression tested it at sea level it was

# 1 ~ 126 psi
# 2 ~ 161 psi
# 3 ~ 118 psi
# 4 ~ 149 psi

i put a couple of squirts of oil in # 3 and the compression stayed the same, to me reads valve adjustment is needed, i hope i've not got early signs of a burnt valve

i'm now about to go out and get a new fuel filter, air filter, and i have replaced the aux air valve, in the hope it might help a little

Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:56 pm

so, adjusting the timing has made a big difference to the engine, the first try to get up to where we are, was a long slow trip in 2nd gear, this morning we went up it in 3rd even accelerating a bit.

so now we are faced with another dilemma, we have people to visit in denver, should we attempt it :D or cut our losses and head west

Thu May 24, 2012 10:03 pm

joetiger wrote: I know how you feel.

Vail Pass (11k feet) at 25-30 MPH is a way of life with a 1.9. I've done it with three of them. I've found that other cars can see you from a mile away and they tend to plan accordingly. Also use the pullout lanes liberally; you're not in a hurry, so a quick stop won't hurt anything.

Enjoy the scenery (as soon as that next semi finishes passing you.) :D

That's inspiring. If you can get by with a 1.9, my 2.2 should be ok(ish). I'm going up to Ouray, Co in July for FJ Summit with a buddy of mine. He'll be towing my Syncro up, but I'm just wondering how it will actually run once we're there. One trail had them at 13k ft!

Fri May 25, 2012 8:29 am

I've made that drive countless times with my 84 & the 1.9L.

Only problem encountered was as we went over Molas Pass (just under 11K) a bag of potato chips exploded. Must have been packaged at sea level. Gave me a bad moment until I realized what had happened.

Fri May 25, 2012 8:52 am

Ahwahnee wrote: I've made that drive countless times with my 84 & the 1.9L.

Only problem encountered was as we went over Molas Pass (just under 11K) a bag of potato chips exploded. Must have been packaged at sea level. Gave me a bad moment until I realized what had happened.

Kettle chips from Salem OR? :D

Fri May 25, 2012 8:57 am

come to denver, I'll buy you a beer :)

Fri May 25, 2012 10:32 am

tschroeder0 wrote: come to denver, I'll buy you a beer :)

Haha I'm trying to get all my buddies in Denver and Boulder to come out and ride in the Syncro. I guess it's a lot farther than it looks on google maps. :-/

Fri May 25, 2012 11:05 am

Zetec

Fri May 25, 2012 1:15 pm

It's about 6 hrs to the Ouray area from Boulder, great drive though!

I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about with altitude, it's all I drive and despite having just finished my suby swap, for the last ten years it was all with a stocker.
One thing I wonder is "how" people drive, remember you can and should be revving pretty high to get into the power and stay there. My routine on I-70 (and all passes) on the steepest parts was 3rd gear wide open, I could easily stay at about 45mph (which is not bad) I was always faster than the truckers. I am willing to bet that a lot of people are easier than they need to be on the stock engine, I never, ever jam gears though!

Fri May 25, 2012 3:30 pm

I'm up at 8300 feet in Nederland, 9000 in Ward. My '90 2.1 does fine as long as I plan ahead. Coming up I-70 over the passes can be painful, so I just stay in the right lane and downshift a lot. I just finished a Subaru 2.5 conversion that should make a big difference.