TheSamba.com :: View topic - Anyone ever change their stove to diesel?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:17 pm

Just dreaming about a single fuel option in the future...

http://www.scanmarineusa.com/wallas_stoves.html

For sailboats and they even have heater lids!

Seen here http://www.badgertrek.com/sportsmobile/appliances.shtml

Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:55 pm

I'm in the process of a TDI conversion and building the tin top into a camper. I don't see the value in carrying multiple fuel canisters so when I do the stove I'll look at a diesel cooker and I'll also look at a diesel heater. I've had my installer put a spigot at the bottom of my diesel tank for future connections.

Espar d2 is the heater. There is a local Portland truck service company that installs hundreds of these a year. I also saw a guy on ebay that sells refurbished systems too.

Webasto makes a diesel cooktop as well. http://www.webasto-outdoors.com/cooking/diesel-cooker-x100.html

And here is an espar parts site.
http://www.esparparts.com/index.php

Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:00 pm

sailboats and other waterborne craft use diesel because it doesn't produce volatile vapors that would collect in the bilge and cause nasty explosions. Same for submarines.

Ever been in one of those boats with diesel cookers or heaters? They smell like, well, diesel.

Besides why would you want to burn fuel you have paid road (and carbon taxes here in BC) taxes on if you don't have to. Propane for heating is probably much cheaper.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:34 pm

I have an X100 Webasto sitting here waiting for my next project (16" Syncro highroof). There is no smell inside as the intake and exhaust for the burner vent to the outside just like a diesel, gas, or propane furnace. For camper use, you would want the Webasto version over the Wallas marine version (even though that optional heater lid is cool!) because the Webasto has an altitude compensation button so it burns well at altitude as well as sea level. Both versions are actually manufactured by Webasto.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:57 pm

240Gordy wrote:
Besides why would you want to burn fuel you have paid road (and carbon taxes here in BC) taxes on if you don't have to. Propane for heating is probably much cheaper.

And yet, propane is still more expensive.
I have now idea what the BTU/gal conversion is but gal to gal propane is more than gas or diesel.

I don't see much advantage. I like the idea but a westy also has a nice propane system installed. If you are starting from scratch, maybe. A good furnace is also 1/2" the price when comparing it to a Espar or Webasto.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:06 pm

Propane is much cheaper and more readily available in Canada than the US. To folks in the US, diesel is a better deal, but in Canada, propane costs less in a liter to liter comparison.

You'll never burn enough to pay off the cost of the stove, but it would be really cool to run everything on diesel.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:15 pm

Most camper folks that go to diesel cookers and furnaces are striving to go 'one fuel'. It's much easier to fill up one tank wherever in the world you're going and never worry about propane or running out of fuel for heat or cooking. At the [totally dirt-cheap] price of the X100 I acquired and the [1/2 cost] diesel furnace, it's a no-brainer.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:17 pm

Here in SoCal, LP is about $2.65 a gallon; diesel is around $4.20. Is diesel really 2X more powerful? I know they've started using LP for busses around here, and other city trucks, so I assumed it was reasonably comparable in terms of power:value ratio...

B.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:24 pm

It's not about fuel efficiency or cost or what is 'the best'. It's about what suits the job at hand best.

Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:26 am

240Gordy wrote: sailboats and other waterborne craft use diesel because it doesn't produce volatile vapors that would collect in the bilge and cause nasty explosions. Same for submarines.

Ever been in one of those boats with diesel cookers or heaters? They smell like, well, diesel.

Besides why would you want to burn fuel you have paid road (and carbon taxes here in BC) taxes on if you don't have to. Propane for heating is probably much cheaper.
+1!!!

In addition to the delightful smell of diesel, there's also the soot issue. The jets will be clogged with deposits, that changes the fuel air ratio, which creates soot that deposits on everything and can't be cleaned up readily, if at all. Further, the burners need to be pre-heated with burning alcohol. In the end, there's no avoiding carrying multiple fuels in the vehicle.

The stock LPG stove (and, for us, fridge) work just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:52 am

RBEmerson wrote: ]

In addition to the delightful smell of diesel, there's also the soot issue. The jets will be clogged with deposits, that changes the fuel air ratio, which creates soot that deposits on everything and can't be cleaned up readily, if at all. Further, the burners need to be pre-heated with burning alcohol. In the end, there's no avoiding carrying multiple fuels in the vehicle.

The stock LPG stove (and, for us, fridge) work just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

You obviously are not familiar with how the X100 functions, to make the above statement. It is a very clean-burning, low-maintenance unit. For some of us and our plans, the carrying of propane around the world is not the best option, but running everything from the base fuel is.

Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:13 am

Looks like the x100 is a very nice stove...
http://www.webasto-outdoors.com/cooking/diesel-cooker-x100.html

It's true that what I have already works and it only costs $7 to fill up my LPG tank just down the street, so a cost comparison for staying in the States unreasonably favors LPG.

What I dream of doing in the future is retiring and traveling the world. The world is kind of far away from that convenient $7 fillup. I know those stoves are very expensive in comparison to the $20 coleman stove you could pick up at a garage sale, but it might be hard to find 1 pound propane canisters anywhere but first world countries.

As far as the soot and exhaust smell goes, I don't have any experience with it. But I do know that the new vehicle diesel technology is very clean. So clean it just smells and feels like hot air coming out of a VW Toaureg V10 TDI exhaust. And that is 2004 technology! Also having the stove actually vent to the outside could be handy when it's extremely cold out, raining sideways or very windy. No open flame means to me it's safer too. Plus diesel isn't nearly as explosive as propane.

I still think a one fuel vehicle will be the way to go for me someday.[/i]

Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:03 pm

I'm neither yat nor nay but I have a question (as always). Would there be some way to have a gauge or something to show how much diesel went to household functions and how much to power plant?I still feel that being able to do mpg (driven) is a good way to indicate maintenance and performance.

I'd probably like the diesel concept as propane scares me somewhat inside, BBQ's etc... are different as they are used outside. Could you carry a household diesel tank?

Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:19 pm

i don't know if it's been mentioned above, but there are also fridges that run on diesel
we looked into replacing everything on my father RV so that it ran on one fuel, with a view of freeing up space, and the weight of cylinders
in the end, the cost of the diesel appliences was too much, it was just not worth doing

running cars on propane, they've been doing it for years in the UK, it started out 1/2 the cost of gasoline, it's creeping up now as to government wants the tax revenue

Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:11 pm

DAIZEE wrote: I'm neither yat nor nay but I have a question (as always). Would there be some way to have a gauge or something to show how much diesel went to household functions and how much to power plant?I still feel that being able to do mpg (driven) is a good way to indicate maintenance and performance.

I'd probably like the diesel concept as propane scares me somewhat inside, BBQ's etc... are different as they are used outside. Could you carry a household diesel tank?

The website says .09-.18 L/hour usage fuel consumption depending on heat output requested. That's not really enough to make a dent in calculating MPG. I have a BN4 gas heater in my T181 and even when I would run it over an hour each day, I never remembered noticing a drop in MPG.

Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:23 pm

The westy stove/sink combo is so functional and efficient space wise that I would have a hard time getting rid of it even though it necessitates carrying propane.

Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:05 pm

Maybe the new ones are a little better than older ones, but not many boats even use diesel for cooking anymore. The galleys I've been in that use diesel stoves are often stinky (doesn't help your sea sickness for sure) and even when they're properly vented, they take longer to light than diesel.

Lots of boats use CNG, it works essentially just like propane but is lighter than air so it won't collect in the bilge and explode.

Why fix what works so well? Propane works well, is pretty inexpensive and you're already set up for it.

I don't see this conversion ever happening :roll: spending lots of money for a stinky solution.

Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:13 pm

I think the problem lies when you go to other countries you can't easily get LPG as we know it here in the states... and you can get diesel anywhere. and having one fuel source would be sweet as well.

Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:56 pm

The naysayers here are truly hilarious! Calling something 'stinky' (it's not) when you've never even used one. Touting the original antiquated Westy stove as something fabulous (it's not) that can't be improved upon. If planning to stick with propane, there are better, more modern stovetops out there from Smev and others. These have spark ignition and flame sensors, making them far more appealing than the unsafe Westy stove - which can easily be turned on accidentally and propane spews unrestricted. I am updating my current Syncro to a Smev unit.

Different needs require different solutions. This thread was about diesel cookers...and the OP posted a photo of a modern, clean-burning one. So other antiquated marine types are not applicable here. Another nice thing about the Wallas/Webasto diesel cooktop is that it vents externally - no CO, no fumes, no added heat other than direct transfer to the pot. The top is Ceran, just like home kitchen cooktops.

Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:00 pm

Link to smev top?