TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1958 Rag, Resto-Rod Build "El Mirage meets The Autobahn

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:47 pm

Thought I'd start out with a little info about myself and this project.

I am a gear head and VW guy, have been since I caught my first one...a 61 Beetle at the ripe old age of 14. That was almost 33 years ago. Since that time I've owned many VWs and just as many Hot Rods. I have a taste for things that are not main-stream. While all the other teenagers were building Camaros and Mustangs...I was learning about horizontally opposed air-cooled engines.

I've always built full and mostly stock bodied Bugs but I've recently got this wild hair to create something truly unique.

Think outside the box for a moment, "What if Ferdinand Porsche met Ed Iskenderian in college and became best friends?", "What if they combined their talents and created a one off, performance prototype Beetle? Sort of El Mirage meets the Autobahn, if you will.

I build cars at a higher level of finish, so this car wont be "Rat Rod Flat Black with seat springs showing"...It will be a proper pan off, nut and bolt resto-rod with a nod to it's German heritage but with a vintage Hot Rod flair.

I appreciate what "purists" do to preserve these cars and respect the work highly, so I will channel some of their passion when building this.

I love uncovering original factory marked parts from big balls of grease and crust, it's sort of an automotive archeology. It is truly touching history.

I will use as many original parts as possible just as Dr. Porsche and Isky would have back in the day. I will create parts when possible and keep the aftermarket purchases to an absolute minimum.

I have contemplated this build for quite some time and since I am partial to earlier bodies, I searched and found a good candidate that will allow me to cut and modify an earlier car that would have otherwise never seen the streets again. This 58 was truly sitting on death row, outside, next to a barn, with weeds up to the door handles. It was going one last round on Craigslist before being dragged to the crusher.

The day I showed up to get the old rag it was pouring down rain. The PO was a truck driver and was on the road and also didn't inform me of any issues with loading it. His elderly wife was the only one home. She took my money, pointed in the direction of the barn it was next to and slammed the door.

When I tried to move the old VW I quickly found that the front brakes and steering linkage were stuck, so it wouldn't roll nor steer. I tried the electric winch on the trailer, but wasn't strong enough to pull the bug with the wheels locked. Needless to say, I was 3 1/2 hours from home, pissed and soaking wet.

Luckily, I had my Dad along with me, we ended up disconnecting the trailer and blocking the trailer wheels so it wouldn't roll, hooked a long tow strap from my truck, over the trailer and to the VW. I pulled the VW (with the front wheels locked), onto the trailer with my truck. Looking at it optimistically, it's a good thing it was raining because the mud and wet ramps helped to let it slide on.

I was angry, cold and tired by the time we got it loaded, but I couldn't take my eyes off the little VW in my rear view mirror all the way back. By the time I got home, I had a soft spot in my heart for Franky, as he is now fondly known. If you are reading this and are a true VW guy (or gal) then you probably understand how these little cars take on a personality, if not, stay tuned and you will understand by the end of this build.

Here he is, Franky, in all his rusted glory...ready to go under the torch and be brought back to life. Enjoy the build.

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Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:27 am

Cool.I built mine from a parts car headed to the crusher also. We drive it everywhere. It is not a trailer queen. :twisted:
Tim

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:01 am

This should be good, can't wait to see more. :)

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:19 am

Perfect Donor Car. Look at that radio delete! I agree on doing one with a quality hot rod persuasion. We are trying to build a quality one too! Subscribed. :D

Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:04 am

As you can see, most of the cool early stuff has already been robbed from this car before I got it. It has the wrong fenders and lights and it also has the wrong hood.

The left rear C pillar is hurt pretty bad from a prior accident and was repaired poorly, so I wont feel bad about chopping that top.

Looks like the only cool stuff remaining is the original doors (minus the Ice Picks), the original steering column (minus the correct wheel), the original ash tray (minus the faceplate), the original radio delete (minus the cast trim)...so you can see it is a prime candidate for this project.

I have plans for a modified dash so I will probably pass the 1958 specific parts remaining on to a correct restoration project where they belong.

I will incorporate the doors and stock gas tank into this build to retain that early flavor.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:47 am

Nice save!

Be prepared to hear crap about cutting up a good car from folks who don't understand what you had to start with.

Sounds like you have a decent plan and know which way you want to go. Keep us posted!

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:48 am

I think the ratchet strap is holding the body together!! :lol:
Cool project, that car needs some love, build the coolest car for YOU not for everyone else. -Louie

Fifty-Eight Rag wrote: As you can see, most of the cool early stuff has already been robbed from this car before I got it. It has the wrong fenders and lights but since I'm V-Roddin it that wont be an issue. It also has the wrong hood.

The left rear C pillar is hurt pretty bad from a prior accident and was repaired poorly, so I wont feel bad about chopping that top.

Looks like the only cool stuff remaining is the original doors (minus the Ice Picks), the original steering column (minus the correct wheel), the original ash tray (minus the faceplate), the original radio delete (minus the cast trim)...so you can see it is a prime candidate for this project.

I have plans for a modified dash so I will probably pass the 58 specific parts remaining on to a correct restoration project where they belong.

I will incorporate the doors and stock gas tank into this build to retain that early flavor.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:49 am

Drscope...I am prepared.

I have been around cars and car guys all my life...I've heard good and bad about nearly every car I've built. You can't please everyone...but rather build a car to please yourself.

I really respect the passion and dedication put into some of the cars built by the so called "purists"...I was addicted to the build thread on here about the VW38 prototype found in Lithuania.

Someday I will build a dead stock Bug to an OEM standard for myself...but I'll guarantee that it wont be a big window and it wont start so rough and incomplete.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:50 am

rgdedge wrote: Cool.I built mine from a parts car headed to the crusher also. We drive it everywhere. It is not a trailer queen. :twisted:
Tim

Mine too!!! :twisted:

vaughn bros. wrote: Perfect Donor Car. Look at that radio delete! I agree on doing one with a quality hot rod persuasion. We are trying to build a quality one too! Subscribed. :D

Yeah...

Be sure to keep the bullet holed weathered windshield.... you cant fake shit as cool as that.......easily...... 8)

Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:28 pm

I have actually been working on this car for a few months and just now decided to make a build thread...so I will start posting pics of the build so far and get everyone up to date over the next few days.

The 58 had a locked up 1500 or 1600 in it and the split case trans doesn't seem to shift too well as it sits...the car had been sitting outside as-is for many years in the Midwest...it's pretty crusty.

I decided that on my budget I would try to find another car as a donor parts car to keep costs down. I found a rusty 67 that was used as a sort of dune buggy on Craigslist that had a decent pan and good trans. The original 1500 was blown up but the guy threw in a 1961 40hp that turns freely. I have under $900 in both cars and the engine.

I got the 67 body off the pan and started evaluating.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:54 pm

If nothing else the 67 will give you a donor roof skin and door tops for you top chop. You need those to stretch the roof and door tops depending on how you go about it.

You can also use the 67 transmission.

Up front you now have options. The 58 is a link pin beam and the 67 is a ball joint beam. The 2 are not normally interchangable. But on a volksrod, if you are going with a beam extender, you can get 1 that will allow you to use a ball joint beam on a link pin frame head and vice versa.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:44 pm

A cool way to extend the front end is to flip the beam around. I saw it on a vrod the last show. Made me take a double look at first. This may be an old way of doing it, but it was a first for me.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:59 pm

always glad to see a revival. Looking forward to the finished piece.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:48 pm

jtwaller wrote: A cool way to extend the front end is to flip the beam around. I saw it on a vrod the last show. Made me take a double look at first. This may be an old way of doing it, but it was a first for me.

Caster becomes a real problem when you do it like this. Ackerman is totally off the charts. And most of the cars done that way are no fun to drive. In fact they are scary as hell!

An extender lets you go 8 or 10 inches and keeps most of the important geometry where you need it. Ackerman is about the only thing effected.

Of course you could also say to heck with either beam and go with a Speedway I beam front axle. Not a bad kit but the anchor point for the radius rods needs to really be beefed up if you go that route. They are prone to failure. The rest of the kit is pretty good stuff.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:21 pm

drscope wrote: jtwaller wrote: A cool way to extend the front end is to flip the beam around. I saw it on a vrod the last show. Made me take a double look at first. This may be an old way of doing it, but it was a first for me.

Caster becomes a real problem when you do it like this. Ackerman is totally off the charts. And most of the cars done that way are no fun to drive. In fact they are scary as hell!

An extender lets you go 8 or 10 inches and keeps most of the important geometry where you need it. Ackerman is about the only thing effected.

Of course you could also say to heck with either beam and go with a Speedway I beam front axle. Not a bad kit but the anchor point for the radius rods needs to really be beefed up if you go that route. They are prone to failure. The rest of the kit is pretty good stuff.

I totally agree about the wacky driving on the flipped axle. Beam extender or Speedway/ Early Ford is the way to go.

I have parts to go either way actually...I have an 8" extender from The Volksrod Shop ready to bolt on. The front beam from the 67 is a new VW unit that was added just before I bought the car so I think I'm going to run it initially.

I tripped on to a deal I couldn't pass up at a swap meet earlier this year...it was a Speedway Motors axle mounting kit complete in the box. I then located a rough but salvageable 39 Ford front axle that was already converted to juice brakes. I may run this set up later...all depends how the car drives and looks after I get it on the road.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:45 pm

Sounds like you are got the right attitude. I got no issues with a volksrod when done well, but it pains me to see a decent car cut up and put together half assed. It's all about the plan, theme and craftsmanship.

I look forward to seeing your progress. In the meantime, here's a a couple of hotties than hopefully will inspire you.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:17 pm

jhicken wrote: Sounds like you are got the right attitude. I got no issues with a volksrod when done well, but it pains me to see a decent car cut up and put together half assed. It's all about the plan, theme and craftsmanship.

I look forward to seeing your progress. In the meantime, here's a a couple of hotties than hopefully will inspire you.

Thanks for the inspirational pics...the full fendered split is more of where I'm going with this build...minus the fenders. I do know I'm not doing the "satin" look paint but that vintage flair is right in line with me.
This may sound crazy, but I'm envisioning a vintage Hot Rod style circa early to mid 50's but with a German twist...a VW needs to keep some of it's heritage. I'm thinking on the lines of 50s European sports car meets 50s American Hot Rod...bare essentials, but well built and refined. 8)

I love Porsche 356's and I am also looking to them for inspiration.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:32 pm

Your car, your money. Do what makes you happy.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:53 am

drscope wrote: Of course you could also say to heck with either beam and go with a Speedway I beam front axle. Not a bad kit but the anchor point for the radius rods needs to really be beefed up if you go that route. They are prone to failure. The rest of the kit is pretty good stuff.

"Prone to failure" is an understatement... Cheap Cast crap.. is what they are.
The only thing that is decent is the frame horn to I beam adapter, but for the price Speedway wants, that can easily be made...

You rarely hear of a VW beam breaking... even after its cut in half, droped, bagged, narrowed, and extended.

I'd take better and safer proven handling any day over some cheap Cast just for looks.
A beam extender makes the transition very very simple, but if you just happen to have an original 39 Ford axle.... man it would be a shame not to use it... IF you want that look and can handle the mods.

My Volksrod with an 8 inch extender drives just as well as my other Vw's.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:49 am

Yeah I've heard the horror stories of the Chinese cheap cast aftermarket "Ford" I beams from Speedway and Super Bell. I'm steering(pardon the pun) clear of those for sure. I did hear that Socal Speed Shop manufactures a true forged axle just like original Ford stuff...that's what they told me when I talked to them. If I decide to go the Ford axle route though, I will definitely be using my 39 axle.

I'm not thoroughly convinced on the Ford axle though, I may just like the VW beam better. I can handle the mods either way, but I want a car that drives as well as it looks.

One thing that I do like about the VW beam over the Ford axle is it would allow me to mount my headlights low...I like that look better