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Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:12 pm

1971 Bus with 1600 Engine. Has a returning problem What to do?
This engine was running fine I took it out to fix a few oil leaks and clean the Heater Boxes? But!

Just discovered I can't shim all of the play out of the crank. Pulled the flywheel and added a shim which takes the end play out and locks up the crank from turning except for what movement the main bearing has until it hits the dow pin but the rear Main bearing still lets the things move a little XYZ don't have a micrometer but I would guess there is over .050" of play side to side, up to down, in to out. Case thrust was 2nd over cut last rebuild 22000 miles ago, What to do? Put it back together and drive it until? Or do all that work? New case? New crank? Something is making this happened? As this is what happened last time it is why it needed rebuilding then.
Are there any ways to fix this have something welded onto the case? Don't want to spend all of that money again. Would just putting a new Rear Main in with some Jb weld work? On my old bug I tried the jb weld for a center main dow pin that wallowed out and it held perfectly for two rebuilds and is still fine. Looking for Ideas? I wonder if anybody makes a special Main bearing with shims on the case side or a little over over?

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:34 pm

Machine the case if it has enough metal left or buy a new case. Don't add shims.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:06 pm

ccpalmer wrote: Machine the case if it has enough metal left or buy a new case. Don't add shims.

I am sure that is the best way to go, I just am trying to find a way to get a few more miles out of it without the cost of a new case. I think this case was 2nd over on the thrust last time it was rebuilt. Still wondering how long jb weld would hold with a new bearings? I might even get another 22000 miles out of her.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:53 pm

jb weld will not bond to oil filled mag-alloy case

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:59 pm

New or good used case is your only option, if it cannot be machined within specs.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:25 pm

The engine that came with my last Bus had 2mm of end play on it. It did fine for a while but then on a road trip it blew a main seal. Got it home, put a new seal in, blew it again in a few weeks. Talked to Boston Bob about it and he said the engine would probably go another 50,000 miles around the city. Not the highway though.

No other fix but to machine the case if you want to go far/fast...

Funny story - second time I blew a seal it was on a customers driveway that had just been re-blacktopped. He laughed and said "that'll be good for it!" Crazy thing the driveway failed a year later - nothing to do with the oil though. Maybe more oil would have helped! :lol:

Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:58 pm

take the flywheel off and see if you can move the crank up and down. If you can the case is probably junk. You can go .040 over on align and maybe .060 if you can find the cutters and bearings. It sounds like the crank was out of round, bent or something.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:12 pm

Danwvw wrote: Main bearing still lets the things move a little XYZ don't have a micrometer but I would guess there is over .050" of play side to side, up to down, in to out.

If there actually is that much up/down side to side play your other main journals are also shot. It's probably a line bore or scrap pile :cry:

Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:41 pm

Desertbusman wrote: Danwvw wrote: Main bearing still lets the things move a little XYZ don't have a micrometer but I would guess there is over .050" of play side to side, up to down, in to out.

It's probably a line bore or scrap pile :cry:

i vote scrap pile. i had a shitty AVP "rebuild" in a bus i bought. the case was so bad, they put a snap ring around the #1 main to make up for the giant thrust cut. what a piece of shit! you could go that route, but why bother?

Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:12 pm

ccpalmer wrote: The engine that came with my last Bus had 2mm of end play on it. It did fine for a while but then on a road trip it blew a main seal. Got it home, put a new seal in, blew it again in a few weeks. Talked to Boston Bob about it and he said the engine would probably go another 50,000 miles around the city. Not the highway though.

No other fix but to machine the case if you want to go far/fast...

Funny story - second time I blew a seal it was on a customers driveway that had just been re-blacktopped. He laughed and said "that'll be good for it!" Crazy thing the driveway failed a year later - nothing to do with the oil though. Maybe more oil would have helped! :lol:

This cheers me up a little, come to think of it last time this happened I did change the fly oil seal too which fixed the oil leak but then it got very clunky a short time after that. I have decided to just put it back together for now, Strangely I too have the driveway scheduled for re-surface tomorrow and that is the main reason she is going back together for now. I will keep my eyes open for another type 1 bus engine that I can build in my spare time with leisure. It's the only way I can stand to work on the Air Cools anymore.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:15 pm

peaceful warrior wrote: New or good used case is your only option, if it cannot be machined within specs.
I though Einstein was able to calculate the size of the Universe or the Mass of the Universe or something finite?

Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:25 pm

SGKent wrote: take the flywheel off and see if you can move the crank up and down. If you can the case is probably junk. You can go .040 over on align and maybe .060 if you can find the cutters and bearings. It sounds like the crank was out of round, bent or something.
Yeah I did that and it is moving around some. That case has always been thrust cut all the way on my watch it came to me that way. The last time I rebuilt it, it looked like someone had put a standard thrust main bearing in as it had a huge gap, I am surprised to see this happen so soon (well 22000 miles) because when I put it together last time with the right 2 over thrust bearing it was nice and tight.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:29 pm

Desertbusman wrote: Danwvw wrote: Main bearing still lets the things move a little XYZ don't have a micrometer but I would guess there is over .050" of play side to side, up to down, in to out.

If there actually is that much up/down side to side play your other main journals are also shot. It's probably a line bore or scrap pile :cry:

I have the Official Service Manual, it's just about worn out too
!

Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:58 pm

Pick a thread and stick to it. You just started this on another thread you are running.

Danwvw wrote: I have a much bigger problem now. I just discovered I can't shim all of the play out of my crank. Pulled the flywheel and added a shim which takes the end play out and locks up the crank from turning except for what movement the main bearing has until it hits the dow pin but the rear Main bearing still lets the things move a little XYZ don't have a micrometer but I would guess there is over .050" of play side to side, up to down, in to out. Case thrust was 2nd over cut last rebuild 22000 miles ago, What to do? Put it back together and drive it until? or do all that work new case? New crank? Something is making this happened? As this is what happened last time it is why it needed rebuilding then. I will post this for some help from everyone. Thanks, Dan

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525089

Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:11 pm

I think I finally got the end play set up right on it. Any Way the engine is back in the bus and has already been driven about 100 miles, The engine is quieter and there is no noticeable end play at all now. Maybe it's Ok. Anyway that case has already been thrust cut to 2nd over so next rebuild will have to be with a new case anyhow. I found locally a complete but dead AE engine with the dog house for $125.00 that the seller will let me take apart and check out before buying. Wonder if the AE Cam is right for the Bus?

Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:20 pm

Danwvw wrote: I Wonder if the AE Cam is right for the Bus?
It should be if it's stock. An AE was a '71 bus engine. And an AE was also a bug engine. Same cam.

Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:46 am

look for a mild cam for it that gives more low end and mid-range. The stock AE cam really limited HP.

The AE cases had a tendency to crack on the back of #3 with age. Check it there closely. Also you can have them reinforced in this area and another. The AE case also used studs that pulled as the case became brittle so case-savers are in order.

Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:35 am

Take the case to a pro builder and have him give it a complete professional inspection. Get Tom Wilsons engine building book to find out more about the case and everything else relating to engine building.

The AE case is the latest and best case that was put in U.S. delivery Bays. But anytime they are rebuilt the head studs need to be upgraded.
I put an Engle W-100 cam in my bus for a bit more poop. However there isn't anything much better than a top quality wonderful stock engine.
Don't do anything or make any decisions until after you get and read Wilson's book.

Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:58 pm

Lots of great feed back, did not know there was so much to know about this case vs that case good to know.
I am surprised that the cam is the same as a bug cam, I always thought they were different. I had another 1971 camper years ago that had a engle 110 cam in it but with everything else stock. I think that may have been too much cam for it. A fellow drilled out the venturi for me which made it run pretty good above 70 MPH but other than that it was probably not as good as stock. I tried the engle 100 cam in a single port 1600 in a 1967 bug trying several different single carbs, The Pic 28 turned out to deliver the best MPG while an old 356A solex 32 meant for a dual setup but just bolted onto the manifold as a single and with the air correction jet plugged made that engine really come alive.
The engine in the 1971 Bus now is stock with the exception of the 1.25 Scat Ratio rocker arms etc. When I put the ratio rockers on the thing that I first noticed is how nicely it helped the throttle response.

Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:41 pm

Yep, make decisions carefully and wisely informed.
You had a '71 that you ran it above 70? It won't last at that speed. Mine and many others are held down to around 60 and sometimes 55.
Between a bug AE and a bus AE the difference is the bus AE has the provisions for the engine mounting bolts. The bug AE doesn't. Apart from that, engines are the same.
You put a W-100 in a bug? Thsat was a bad match. The w-100 gives more low speed torque. A bug doesn't need that.
And a 110 in your other bus? That's not great either unless it's a built engine. Not good on a stocker. But the ratio rockers wouldn't be bad. No need for a cam and the rockers also unless you build a performance engine.
And the carb deal on your old bug doesn't apply to your bus. Whth the DP stick with a stock carb.
Spend you effort on quality and have it fully balanced. At the same time, a header is nice on a stocker.