TheSamba.com :: View topic - VW Cabrio - Timing Belt

Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:24 pm

I had a water leak in my manual transmission 2001 2.0L VW Cabrio. My mechanic advised me to replace my timing belt too. My car has 150k, so I said, sure! Repairs were made to the tune of $670.

Two weeks later the car engine putters to a stop. I had the car towed to the original mechanic. The mechanic called me to come into the shop. The engine is ruined. Timing jumped. He shows me a cylindrical part that has 4 long bolts in it and a large center bolt. He shows me the inside of this part and tells me it is worn. That is why the timing jumped, not his fault. He didn't even remove that part during the timing belt change.

He offered to pay for the parts (a salvaged engine) if I pay the labor to get my cabby going again. Should he be paying the whole bill? Is it his fault the timing jumped?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:36 pm

If it's an 01 Cabrio with a 2.0 it should be an ABA, which is an external water pump motor. The later VW engines used a water pump driven off the timing belt, but this one did not. The two were not related in the first place, and unless you have a different motor in there I'm guessing this guy didn't do all that much. Do you have picture of what he showed you?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:19 am

I have to ask, in which manner was this engine "ruined"? I thought the ABA engine was non-interference in most circumstances (that is to say, the valves don't usually hit the pistons if a timing belt slips)

This is a picture of the timing gear on the engine - this is the "heart" of that part that the mechanic showed you. This bolts to the crankshaft and the lower pullies then bolt to this. What was worn about it?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:05 am

That is the picture of the part he showed me. He had it turned around and on the inside he pointed to a small flat area of the ring that looked like it might keep this part locked in some how. He said that the flat part there had worn. He also said he did not remove this timing gear during the timing belt replacement. Thank you both for looking at this.

He also tells me that my engine is an interference engine and ruined thusly.

Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:36 am

Okay, so the keyway on the gear stripped out then. Or was it the crankshaft that was damaged? It is correct that you don't have to remove the gear to simply swap the timing belt. (However after 150K it's probably not a bad idea to replace the timing gear seals... and to do those the gear does have to come off. So if they charged you for resealing it - three 026103085D seals, one for each sprocket - when they did the timing belt, they did take the gears off.)

My experience with ABAs ends with the A3/mk3 models. The A3 Bentley even says in two different places that VW doesn't specify a replacement interval - and for VW not to issue an official maintenance interval for a timing belt would indicate to me that it's a non-interferance engine. Perhaps those latter-day ABAs were different.

The VW Vortex site is better for watercooled stuff generally... I did a search there about this topic and I guess the ABA's status is gray as to interferance or not.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4313629-Is-the-ABA-an-Interference-Motor&

Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:01 pm

If the belt breaks when the engine is at a high rpm, then the valves sometimes get tweeked. If I was working on it, I'd replace that lower gear, re-time the engine, and see what it does. It may be okay, at worst a couple of valves may be bent. Nothing that can't be fixed.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:02 pm

No way is this a coincidence.

My guess is that the mechanic took out the center bolt, thinking it was necessary to get the outer pulley off ( some cars are built that way). The guy then failed to properly torque
the bolt upon reinstall.

He backdoored you hard. Because aba's never never never NEVER spin a crank timing sprocket.

As long as this guy isn't a fly by night hillbilly he should be forced to adhere to the natef standard that any occurance resulting from his worksmanship are guaranteed for 90 days/4000 miles.

File small claims and recover the entire 2k this hack cost you. Whatever you do, never let this guy lay a finger on your car. Take it to a shop specializing in imports.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:31 pm

I have been a mechanic a long time and I have never seen anything spin a crank sproket save for 1 chinese made kid sized dirt bike. Sadley I have seen many guys on many occasions dream up very plausible sounding excuses to cover a mistake. I have also only ever seen one, just one, 8 valve vw engine crunch valves. Both are possible not probable. Both things are possible but the combination of two sounds pretty unlikley to me. Sorry that you are having this trouble. I hope you get her going again soon.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:06 am

73sports wrote: If the belt breaks when the engine is at a high rpm, then the valves sometimes get tweeked.

I agree.. When I worked at VW, I saw two ABA Jettas break a timing belt and tweek valves. We're told they're not supposed to.. but they did.

Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:36 pm

I have personally seen this many times with the ABA. First, I have seen this with several early 2.0L ABA motors. THe bolt that attaches the sprocket to tthe crankshaft is a stretch bolt. I learned this the hard way, and broke several cranks and sprockets before a VW mechanic told me. My wife now owns an 01 Cabrio, with a 2.0 abs, and we bought it used. The PO must have done the timing belt, because the sprocket spun, and bent valves. I ended up getting a new head, belt tensioner, and stretch bolt. My advic is to go back to the mechanic and ask him if he took the outer pulley off with the 6mm hex bolts, or he took the sproket off. Then when he tells you that he took the middle bolt out, ask him if he replaced the stretch bolt. Then when he back pedals, tell him to make it right or you will go to the BBB. This is 100% his fault, and he knows it. he was the last one in there, and didn't do the job right. And if the valves are bent, that is his problem as well.

Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:38 pm

marken wrote: I have been a mechanic a long time and I have never seen anything spin a crank sproket save for 1 chinese made kid sized dirt bike. Sadley I have seen many guys on many occasions dream up very plausible sounding excuses to cover a mistake. I have also only ever seen one, just one, 8 valve vw engine crunch valves. Both are possible not probable. Both things are possible but the combination of two sounds pretty unlikley to me. Sorry that you are having this trouble. I hope you get her going again soon.
The bolt on the ABA is a stretch bolt, and will come loose if not replaced and stretched. THe later Cabrio ABA motors are interference, found out the hard way.