TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:41 pm

Hoping someone will reply that they are happy with the SB front drop by only cutting their front springs. I understand that 2 or 2 1/2 coils cut will drop the front around 2 inches with no other changes. I can tolerate some ride quality loss, but I need a little push to get started. How about it?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:47 pm

basically your going to get a stiffer ride and lose quite a bit of travel.

when you can buy a cheap lowering pair for $130 why bother?

http://www.jbugs.com/product/9626.html

or you can get a pair of sport+ springs from topline for $100 but that's only about an inch drop.

If you want to get super cheap/home brew don't cut the springs just cut the perches and reweld them on lower. that's basically what these strut kits are achieving

Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:35 pm

I cut mine at first just to get a look at how it would be lowered. Drove it that way for a month or two. I only took off about 1 1/2 coils and it rode bad. I also noticed a few times where I was hitting the brake and the front wheels would lock up a lot easier than they should. On smooth pavement it was'nt a problem, but if I hit a bump the front wheels would try to slide a little. If you can afford it, buy the parts and you will be happier.

Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:44 pm

bigstrov34 wrote: basically your going to get a stiffer ride and lose quite a bit of travel.

It's not that the ride is stiffened up, its because its riding on the bump stop rubbers more and inserts are running out of travel, thats why lowered struts always have shorter inserts.

You'll make the spring rate softer by cutting a few coils off, do it properly and either get adjustables or reweld the cup lower but don't go more than 2" or you'll get a shitty ride with stock inserts.

Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:12 am

When those spring bounce around and puncture a tire, your screwed. It's not so bad with factory width tires. But when you put some meat on there, DONT USE CUT SPRINGS.

You'll hear the springs churning around on the spring perch.

And you'll most likely bottom out like a mother-f*cker because you were too cheap to replace the struts and have bump steer like hell.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:16 am

Quote: You'll make the spring rate softer by cutting a few coils off, do it properly and either get adjustables or reweld the cup lower but don't go more than 2" or you'll get a shitty ride with stock inserts.

Pretty sure the spring rate INCREASES when you cut coils, making the ride stiffer. Now If you heat them too much you will loose some tension and ruin the spring long term.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:31 pm

Mmmm, a bit like a glass of water will be heavier if you tip some water out.... :roll:

If cutting springs made for a nice safe ride, everyone would be doing it not just the idiots with no concern for safety.

Think about the mechanics of a spring, by removing part of it's ability to work do you think you're going to make it stronger?

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:41 pm

i just cut my front coils over the weekend. so far the ride is nice

not too stiff, definitely not loose and body rolling anymore

i wasnt getting blown around on the freeway

i chopped 2 in a half off each side. and got 6 equal parts of "horse shoe" shaped coil

heres some pics before n after

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:43 pm

3 of these chunks = 2 in a half coils = 4 inches of uncompressed spring = about a 2.5'' compressed spring drop

we noticed theres a nice notch for the end of the spring to stop against. so make sure you use the existing groove to secure the cut. also the top will rotate independant from the bottom so clean out the road debris and use the notches and you should be fine

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:48 pm

Any time you cut coils will make the car lower, but a shortened spring is a much stiffer spring...the ride will jar the fillings out of your teeth, and it will ride like a rock....You don't want to suffer through that...you will then have to remove the cut springs and put the correct ones back in....why do this job twice?...just get the proper springs to begin with and put them in the first time....like the other guys have said, cut the spring plates and re weld them two inches lower to get the "look" you want...don't cheap out on the suspension...it's not worth it.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:42 pm

You cut the coils off with an angle grinder while they were still on the car and not compressed???... :shock:

If you want to cheap out lowering a super do it properly,
10 mins with a welder.... easy

It will still sit low but ride much better

Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:41 pm

I cut mine it rode ok . I liked it now I have top line maxx struts & disk brakes with boxter wheels . It's a lot better .

Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:49 am

Thanks for the various opinions. It appears that moving the spring cups down about two inches would be the best (cheap) route. Cutting the coils while in the car looks like a recipe for disaster. Thanks again, I think I'll do mine OUTSIDE the car with the struts removed.....Mike

Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:00 am

I cut mine on the car . Not that much tension on the front . Compared to other cars with the engine in the front . Make shure u jack it up in the front then do it .

Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:16 pm

The springs can't go anywhere when they are still in the car but the big risk IMO is the spring slamming the angle grinder while its running as the coil is cut and sending it into the strut, car, brake drum or worse you arm, leg etc.

Maybe I've had too much practice but it only takes 15 mins to remove the strut from the car and put it in the vice with some spring compressors.
Not much effort to avoid the chance of becoming the next Darwin award contender.

type1guy wrote: Thanks for the various opinions. It appears that moving the spring cups down about two inches would be the best (cheap) route.

Best way to keep a nice ride.
I've tried just about every method of lowering a super including cutting coils and rewelding the lower cup and that gives a much nicer ride than cut springs because you are not cutting the progressive coils off.

That's why people think cutting the springs makes them firmer.
a 90lb spring is still a 90lb spring no matter how much you cut off it but they are designed with a progressive spring rate which you are ruining when you cut the first few coils off.
That's what gives Supers that smoother ride, you can't get a progressive spring rate with torsion bars.

Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:25 am

Quote: That's why people think cutting the springs makes them firmer.
a 90lb spring is still a 90lb spring no matter how much you cut off it but they are designed with a progressive spring rate which you are ruining when you cut the first few coils off.
That's what gives Supers that smoother ride, you can't get a progressive spring rate with torsion bars.

People dont "think" it makes them firmer, it does man. Google it, or go here http://www.eatonsprings.com/techquestions/cuttingcoilspringscalculations.htm

This has been talked about many times, your making the "90lb spring shorter, thus increasing its spring load, yes it will be a bit stiffer if you cut some coils off. Which is a good thing because your eliminating suspension travel so the added stiffness will help with bottoming out

Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:11 am

Joel wrote: You cut the coils off with an angle grinder while they were still on the car and not compressed???... :shock:

If you want to cheap out lowering a super do it properly,
10 mins with a welder.... easy

It will still sit low but ride much better

....That's the way to do it on the cheap....your bug sits right and looks great !

Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:35 am

slamadub wrote: Quote: That's why people think cutting the springs makes them firmer.
a 90lb spring is still a 90lb spring no matter how much you cut off it but they are designed with a progressive spring rate which you are ruining when you cut the first few coils off.
That's what gives Supers that smoother ride, you can't get a progressive spring rate with torsion bars.

People dont "think" it makes them firmer, it does man. Google it, or go here http://www.eatonsprings.com/techquestions/cuttingcoilspringscalculations.htm

This has been talked about many times, your making the "90lb spring shorter, thus increasing its spring load, yes it will be a bit stiffer if you cut some coils off. Which is a good thing because your eliminating suspension travel so the added stiffness will help with bottoming out

Yes, a coil spring is just a torsion bar that bent into a different shape. Their spring rates are both proportional to wire diameter^4 and length. The same way the standard's torsion bars in the front get stiffer when you narrow the beam, a coil spring will get stiffer when you reduce the wire length by cutting coils. Problem is as Joel mentioned, you could be cutting out the progressive coils which will make the springs much stiffer than you think. Also, by removing the flat portion at the end of the spring, you're putting a lot of stress on just a small part of the spring perch. I've seen parts you can get to set a cut spring in that will spread the load to the rest of the perch like normal.

Just as an aside, the reason you can make a coil spring progressive but it's very difficult with a torsion bar is that the the weaker thinner coils go into coil bind first and that cleverly self limits the amount of twist they experience. If you had a tapered torsion bar, the thinnest spot would experience most of the twist stress and likely just break off.