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Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:59 pm

I have what appears to be an electrical issue. My usual mechanic had my Eurovan in his shop for 5 months before returning it with an apology that he couldn't find the problem. The main thing he tried was replacing the timing chain, guides and related parts. He put in new spark plugs and looked over the engine also.

When driving, here are the symptoms:
1) difficult to get started, usually starts with a little gas and turning the key for 20 seconds
2) often when trying to take car out of park, playing with the brake pedal (pumping) is needed before the car can be shifted out of park.
3) When getting started/colder, there is often a delay in giving gas and a reaction. Easily noticed at a stop, about 15 seconds lapse between giving gas and reaction. Problem seems to go away or lessen when warmed up.
4) Roughs rough, specially at lower speeds. My mechanic described it as a "flat spot."
5) The ABS light is always on
6) The brake light always flashes
7) The check engine light comes on and off randomly while driving
8 ) The oil light comes on and off randomly while driving
9) The RPMs when driving randomly go down to 0 and back up to usual measurements, sometime this happens constantly back and forth when driving.
10) The dash lights that indicate what gear you are in completely turn off and on randomly while driving.

Here are the codes I was given at a previous mechanic:
18057 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1649 - 35-00 - Missing Message from ABC Controller
18057 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1650 - 35-00 - Missing Message from Instrument Cluster
17976 - Throttle Actuator (J338)
P1568 - 35-10 - Mechanical Failure - Intermittent
17755 - Camshaft Position Sensor 2 (G163) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P1347 - 35-00 - Incorr. Correl.
17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P1340 - 35-00 - Incorr. Correl.

I am now trying yet another mechanic. They are recommending the replacement of a Camshaft Position Sensor. I worry this might not be the right call considering we are getting errors from both Camshaft Position Sensors. The mechanic didn't instill much faith when he told me it was something to try but he didn't know if it would help or not.

Any thoughts on what might be causing all these issues? Perhaps one related issue?

One hint: I bought this car and immediately began having issues. When it was delivered to me, it had a bad/dead battery and the immobilizer was being triggered, even using the correct keys. The VW dealer reprogrammed the immobilizer and resolved that problem. However, when first trying to get it started several friends were trying to help. One thing they tried many times was to jump start. Perhaps during jump start attempts, something else got shorted out causing the current problems? --- Thoughts?

I'm eager to hear everyone's thoughts on what might be causing all these issues.

Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:12 am

most of the time there is a bad connection at one of the terminal plugs instead of the sensor being bad-- you have a module communication interruption in one or more of your twisted wire pairs--connections--
what year and powertrain do you have? vr6 or the 5 or??
unwrapping the harness is a bitch--just disturb the plugs and trace the paths via the service manual--hopefully bentley got more useful info in there than he did in the 80's. like illustrations that depict what the harness looks like and where the plugs and components are, so you can get up to speed more quickly--
If you have any tee pins, you can insert them in the plugs fro voltage testing.
this all sounds very unattractive-- but a suspected circuit can be drawn out on one large sheet from multiple pages in the book and you can see the lay of it.
everyone went to the twisted pair data bus in the nineties to cut down on the mass of wires required by using the telegraph style data bus configuration. obd 11, right?

Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:00 am

It is a vr6, 2001 gls.

Am I going to find a mechanic that understands this? I feel so defeated.

Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:37 am

The communication faults could be communication wires to those modules themselves. If it were an ECU issue, we would also see no communication faults with the airbags and auto trans. It's possible you just have a bad ABS module and/or instrument cluster. Your new mechanic will need to check power at the modules. looking again at your instrument cluster issues, it may need replacement. Also check your battery condition.

It would be helpful if you could post an autoscan of the entire vehicle.

Your "flat spot" could be caused by the throttle body fault. I would try a throttle body adaptation first. Then clean and move the throttle body plate around. Then try hard booting the ECU by either removing it for a while or removing and touching the battery cables together for 10 seconds or so. Last option is to just replace it after all the wiring checks out.

The cam correlation faults are bad though. If he already did the chains it's possible he screwed them up or left parts out. There is a tool that locks the cams at TDC and the rest are lined up with marks.

Your new mechanic can test the sensors with a scope. Just check for a waveform to make sure it's picking it up. If it is, you will need to check the mechanical timing of the chains.

The oil light is the worst. Tell your mechanic exactly when it turns on and under what driving conditions. It may need to be mechanically checked with a gauge to verify it's not a sensor going bad. Could be several possibilities, expensive possibilities!

Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:45 am

xoo00oox wrote: Has anyone tried to re-set the ABS or instrument cluster since the battery replacement? You need more than a universal OBDII scanner to do this.
The throttle body may need to be cleaned and adapted or replaced and adapted. The other two codes are related to the timing chain timing. Lack of oil changes can cause sludge to plug the oil feed to the timing chain adjusters. Give it a fresh oil change and then again after a few hundred miles, clear these codes from the ECM and see if they return.

From your April/ May thread.

Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:01 pm

I do not believe anyone has tried to re-set the ABS or instrument cluster. One mechanic unplugged the ABS module and drove it around. He said the symptoms continued, so he decided the ABS module was not to blame.

How do I go about resetting the ABS and Instrument Cluster?

I do not know if any mechanics "cleared" the codes after reading them. But they are showing up with the same stuff now as we had back in April.

None of the mechanics thus far have touched or mentioned the throttle body.

Unfortunately, my new mechanic didn't seem to know how to check the sensors. I'll call him tomorrow and get more details and pass along the recommendations.

How do I get an autoscan of the entire vehicle?

Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:09 pm

So far, not a single mechanic that has touched this van has instilled any sort of confidence in me that they know what they are doing with the van.

How do I find someone that actually knows about 2001 EuroVans and electrical issues in particular?

Maybe I have a cancer that I need to get rid of? How much is this going to cost to get running? When is it time to quit trying?

Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:50 pm

I can't help with all your problems, but I have a 2002 Eurovan that exhibited some of the same problems esp #2 and #s 56and 7. My car has always been maintained by the dealer since new and I have had the same Service writer most of that time. We have a good working relationship and have built up a fair amount of trust.

#2 was an easy fix. The shift interlock is a brake light switch problem. Cheap part. Less than $5.

#s 56&7 were a little more dificult They ended up repacing the "clock spring" in the steering wheel and recoding the ABS. Ouch that part was super expensive. But cleared up all the intermittent dash warning lights. I was almost ready to get rid of my Bus but had to suck it up. They also replaced a vacuum pipe which may have been the check engine problem. My bus has had lots of vacuum leaks over the years.

Sluggishness and hard start problems were taken care of a while ago by having it de carbonized. I was a little skeptical at first But it cleared up the rough running and the hesitation when cold.

Those things will by no means clear up all your troubles buit if you plan on keeping your Euro Those are things that may need attention. The check oil lis the most worrisome and may render all the other problems mute,
Have you considered taking it to the dealer for just a scan? I ended up spending about $1500 for these repairs and some other maintenace items. The big ticket was the "clock spring. Part alone was $600. I really thought long and hard about that one.

Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:05 pm

A bad clockspring would likely give a yaw rate sensor fault.

Good call on the brake switch, the VW switches go bad all the time.

You need to find someone with VAG-COM or VCDS http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/index.html. On many watercooled forums there is a locator where you can find someone close to you. Just search vagcom locator and you will find lots of results. Google will be your friend with this car if you can sort through the garbage. VCDS is what was used to produce the list of faults you have given us.

If you can't communicate with the ABS or instruments, something is wrong with the module or communication wires.

If it were at my shop, I would clear the codes to see what comes up, adapt the throttle body, maybe check oil pressure if you can safely say what oil is in the engine and the last time it was changed. I would also check around measuring blocks 90-94 in VCDS to see if I can see the cam tensioner adjustments. If those are off, the chains need to be redone or looked into more.

These aren't really that difficult.

Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:46 am

hans j wrote: A bad clockspring would likely give a yaw rate sensor fault.

Good call on the brake switch, the VW switches go bad all the time.

You need to find someone with VAG-COM or VCDS http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/index.html. On many watercooled forums there is a locator where you can find someone close to you. Just search vagcom locator and you will find lots of results. Google will be your friend with this car if you can sort through the garbage. VCDS is what was used to produce the list of faults you have given us.

If you can't communicate with the ABS or instruments, something is wrong with the module or communication wires.

If it were at my shop, I would clear the codes to see what comes up, adapt the throttle body, maybe check oil pressure if you can safely say what oil is in the engine and the last time it was changed. I would also check around measuring blocks 90-94 in VCDS to see if I can see the cam tensioner adjustments. If those are off, the chains need to be redone or looked into more.

These aren't really that difficult.

I agree with all this 100%. If ABS module is found to be bad BBA Reman. in Tauton, MA. Can rebuild it. I have sent many there with great results. In the right hands, these problems should be quickly diagnosed.

Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:48 pm

I ordered a brake light switch per the recommendations here. Then I ordered a heater valve as the mechanic said he saw it leaking. Finally, I ordered a cam sensor as the local mechanic said it tested bad.

I think I will order my own VAG-COM to try the things you kind folks have recommended. The VAG tool locator sites show that I need to drive at least 2 hours to borrow one. Is it worth the extra $100 to get the CAN version --- or should I get the $250 KII version?

Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:16 pm

VWjsin wrote: I ordered a brake light switch per the recommendations here. Then I ordered a heater valve as the mechanic said he saw it leaking. Finally, I ordered a cam sensor as the local mechanic said it tested bad.

I think I will order my own VAG-COM to try the things you kind folks have recommended. The VAG tool locator sites show that I need to drive at least 2 hours to borrow one. Is it worth the extra $100 to get the CAN version --- or should I get the $250 KII version?

Do I need to spend $99 more to buy this?

Volkswagen
Eurovan: 1992 - 2003
Repair Manual on DVD-ROM

The Ross tech website tells me:
"Ross-Tech offers Bentley Publisher's Repair Manuals* for our customer's convenience. VCDS without a Repair Manual is like having a ratchet without any sockets. Your ability to effect a repair is limited by the tools available."

Of course I don't want to buy a ratchet without any sockets, but I don't want to waste $100 either :)

Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:24 pm

I would recommend a paper manual over the CD. I have had not so good luck with the Bentley CD's. Anyone who sells OE parts at an independent shop should be able to order you one, or check ebay or amazon or the Bentley Publishers site.

Personally I use the HEX-CAN-USB tool, but I have to read CAN cars often. One thing you should note is VDCS has a generic scan tool built in so it can get data from any OBDII car. So it's not only just useful for VW and Audi. But you would want a CAN version if you ever plan on buying a newer VW/Audi (2006 and up?)

And don't forget about the wiki.rosstech site. You can punch in your faults there and get at least an inkling of an idea of what to check.

Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:48 am

My ross-tech package just came in the mail. Here are the scan results:

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.4 (x64)
Data version: 20120807

Saturday,17,November,2012,11:44:40:57790

Chassis Type: 70 - VW Transporter
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 22 25

VIN:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-AXK.lbl
Part No: 022 906 032 F
Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1 G 0004
Coding: 00013
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: 0E1DAE974AB6DB68A39

9 Faults Found:
18057 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1649 - 35-00 - Missing Message from ABS Controller
18058 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1650 - 35-00 - Missing Message from Instrument Cluster
16730 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G163)
P0346 - 35-00 - Implausible Signal
17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P1340 - 35-00 - Incor. Correlation
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 35-00 -
16689 - Cylinder 5
P0305 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
16687 - Cylinder 3
P0303 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
17755 - Camshaft Position Sensor 2 (G163) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P1347 - 35-10 - Incor. Correl. - Intermittent
17559 - Long Term Fuel Trim Additive Air; Bank 1; Range 1
P1151 - 35-00 - System too Lean
Readiness: 0000 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01P-927-733.lbl
Part No: 01P 927 733 CE
Component: AG4 Getriebe 01P 4841
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 78F1E84F5832F5D8195

1 Fault Found:
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: None
Part No: 7D0 907 040
Component: CLIMATRONIC 0004
Coding: 00032
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: DFC323D35DDCA2E0F8F

1 Fault Found:
00603 - Footwell/defroster Flap Positioning Motor (V85)
35-10 - - - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
Part No: 1J0 909 603 BM
Component: AIRBAG VW3 - V04
Coding: 16973
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: 75EFE17B4F2088B0023

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
Part No: 6X0 953 257
Component: IMMO 0008
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 22600
VCID: FDFF795BF71050F0CA3
WV2KB470X1H133563 VWZ1Z0A1316673

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:03 pm

After I clear all DTCs, this is what comes up:

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.4 (x64)
Data version: 20120807

Saturday,17,November,2012,12:02:19:57790

Chassis Type: 70 - VW Transporter
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 22 25

VIN:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-AXK.lbl
Part No: 022 906 032 F
Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1 G 0004
Coding: 00013
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: 0E1DAE974AB6DB68A39

2 Faults Found:
18057 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1649 - 35-00 - Missing Message from ABS Controller
18058 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1650 - 35-00 - Missing Message from Instrument Cluster
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01P-927-733.lbl
Part No: 01P 927 733 CE
Component: AG4 Getriebe 01P 4841
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 78F1E84F5832F5D8195

1 Fault Found:
00811 - System Not Ready for Interrogation (Ross-Tech; Check Fault Codes Later)
35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: None
Part No: 7D0 907 040
Component: CLIMATRONIC 0004
Coding: 00032
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: DFC323D35DDCA2E0F8F

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
Part No: 1J0 909 603 BM
Component: AIRBAG VW3 - V04
Coding: 16973
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: 75EFE17B4F2088B0023

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
Part No: 6X0 953 257
Component: IMMO 0008
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 22600
VCID: FDFF795BF71050F0CA3
WV2KB470X1H133563 VWZ1Z0A1316673

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:21 pm

You should be able to scan the Instrument cluster (17) and the ABS controller (3). There is something blocking them, or they are not powered up correct or diagnostic wire is missing/ unplugged. The engine should run fine regardless.
Now that you have cleared the ECM, run it or drive it until the next code comes up, focus on fixing that one then clear codes and repeat until no more come about.

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:32 pm

I just adapted the throttle body, reset all DTCs, then took it for a test drive, then did another auto-scan.

First, during the test drive, the RPM gauge worked properly, although the drop to 0 problem is intermittent, so it likely still exists. I had no problem with starting and no issue going again after a stop, however, those problems exist mainly when cold, so I am unsure if they are better or not. It seems to idle better now. When driving on the test drive, the check engine light and the oil light remained OFF. The ABS light remained on and the brake light flashed the entire time. The panel that shows what gear you are in still is flashing on and off.

The mechanic that last worked on it said he looked for, but could not find, any electrical shorts. It seems clear there must be one, but no idea how to find it.

I'll post the most recent auto-scan. What should I try next???

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.4 (x64)
Data version: 20120807

Saturday,17,November,2012,12:30:34:57790

Chassis Type: 70 - VW Transporter
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 22 25

VIN:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-AXK.lbl
Part No: 022 906 032 F
Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1 G 0004
Coding: 00013
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: 0E1DAE974AB6DB68A39

4 Faults Found:
18058 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1650 - 35-00 - Missing Message from Instrument Cluster
18057 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1649 - 35-00 - Missing Message from ABS Controller
17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P1340 - 35-00 - Incor. Correlation
16730 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G163)
P0346 - 35-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01P-927-733.lbl
Part No: 01P 927 733 CE
Component: AG4 Getriebe 01P 4841
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 78F1E84F5832F5D8195

1 Fault Found:
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: None
Part No: 7D0 907 040
Component: CLIMATRONIC 0004
Coding: 00032
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: DFC323D35DDCA2E0F8F

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
Part No: 1J0 909 603 BM
Component: AIRBAG VW3 - V04
Coding: 16973
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: 75EFE17B4F2088B0023

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
Part No: 6X0 953 257
Component: IMMO 0008
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 22600
VCID: FDFF795BF71050F0CA3
WV2KB470X1H133563 VWZ1Z0A1316673

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:46 pm

xoo00oox wrote: You should be able to scan the Instrument cluster (17) and the ABS controller (3). There is something blocking them, or they are not powered up correct or diagnostic wire is missing/ unplugged. The engine should run fine regardless.

Someone else suggested that I "reset" the IC and ABS. As I have only used VCDS for about an hour now, I am not yet sure how to reset them or scan them.

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:55 pm

you won't be able to because for what ever reason they are not communicating with the VCDS or other modules. You may want to try unplugging ABS then see if you are able to talk to the cluster. If not, I would try finding a used cluster or send it to BBS Reman in Taunton MA for repair. But first check wiring, make sure no blown fuses or unplugged wires. The ABS controller is probably in need of repair, you can send that to BBA also, they can check it for you.

Andrew-

Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:16 pm

xoo00oox wrote: you won't be able to because for what ever reason they are not communicating with the VCDS or other modules. You may want to try unplugging ABS then see if you are able to talk to the cluster. If not, I would try finding a used cluster or send it to BBS Reman in Taunton MA for repair. But first check wiring, make sure no blown fuses or unplugged wires. The ABS controller is probably in need of repair, you can send that to BBA also, they can check it for you.

Andrew-

I am able to communicate with the cluster right now. I do not know what I am doing exactly, but I was able to select that control module (17) and I deleted the DTCs and ran through the output tests.

What else should I do to the IC?