TheSamba.com :: View topic - My title was sold for a dune buggy. Now what?

Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:52 am

I've gotten an early '55 that has a title that's been sold to someone else to use on a dune buggy and it appears I can't wrest it from that guy. I've titled abandoned cars in the past but this situation's new to me. I've seen titles for sale but how do you use them? This car is a secondary project so if it drags out it's no big deal, but I want it to be legal.

How do I title this car?

Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:23 am

If YOU have the VIN on the chassis, that is what you need to go by.

If the title is not with the car you need to start the process of getting a duplicate title. There are several different ways to do that and yopur best way of doing it my depend on your state.

FORGET about the guy who bought the title to use for something else. If YOU have the VIN stamped on the chassis, then YOU have legal right to a new title - he does not.

You shouldn't claim to know ANYTHING about where the title went or what it was used for. Just do what you need to do to apply for a duplicate.

If it comes back that the other guy has a buggy registered with that VIN number, then you can have law enforcment inspect your car for the VIN.

This may cause trouble for the other guy, but are you worried about him or about you?

Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:29 pm

do you have the stamped VIN number under the seat? As well as the rivited tag behind the spare tire? If so you should have the only ability have a title legally issued to you.

Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:38 pm

Your situation can go bad quick. Lets see if I can break this down correctly.

> OG owner had a 1955 Bug and for whatever reason he sold the title (sold ownership of the 1955 bug).
> Second owner abandoned the bug (or whatever you want to call it).
> Second owner manafactured a VIN based on the title he bought for his buggy kit.
> OG owner got tired of the yard art and sold the abandoned bug (that really belonged to the title holder).
> You become the third "owner" of the car.

Once the title was registered in second owners name, it became his car, no matter where it resided at (or what he used the title for). (Though his buggy is likely not legal)

So the first owner sold the car twice (once with the title and second time without) Illegal actually.

So where does this leave you: A car that can never be legal (actually maybe considered stolen). Your only legal recourse is to reverse the sale of a vehicle due to no title...

Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:39 am

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Bingo. Try to get your money back (assuming you paid for the car?). Anything else is probably a waste of time and/or not worth the risk in this particular case. It sounds suspicious enough that it might actually be worth your while to try to return the car gratis to either the current title holder or the previous owner in the interest of not being caught in possession of possible stolen property. Stolen Ovals are not unheard of, and it's entirely likely the victim of such a crime is scrutinizing this thread and is anxiously waiting for you to post details and pictures of the 55, is looking through your gallery and at other forum posts you've made. Even if the car isn't stolen, you might still end up talking to the police, and they're probably not going to be pleased to hear your story of how you came to be in possession of a car that someone else actually has the title to.

Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:56 am

Dang, I liked the early replies better. I've known the guy I got it from for many years so I know nothing fishy is going on, he just had much nicer, much older cars so this one wasn't anything special to him. It's a rough car but a 3-fold so it's worth some effort to me as a secondary project. I'll see if I can track down the guy who has it and buy the title or trade him for a newer one I have.

Just in case, how do these titles people sell at car shows work?

Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:41 am

Titles sold at car shows work very similar to the way the buggy guy was planning on using the title for the 55.

Go to any hot rod show and look at the cars. Many that are titled as say a 32 Ford, are completely built from a catalog. There is nothing there from 1932. But they were able to buy a title and then produce a VIN tag, or stamp that old number into their new chassis to have their modern creation titled as a 32.

This gets into the gray area of just how far a restoration goes. At what point is the pile of new parts you used on the restoration no longer what you started with?

Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:57 pm

i live in ky to
GOOD luck can u put a new pan it and title it leagly???

Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:05 pm

drscope wrote: Titles sold at car shows work very similar to the way the buggy guy was planning on using the title for the 55.

Go to any hot rod show and look at the cars. Many that are titled as say a 32 Ford, are completely built from a catalog. There is nothing there from 1932. But they were able to buy a title and then produce a VIN tag, or stamp that old number into their new chassis to have their modern creation titled as a 32.

This gets into the gray area of just how far a restoration goes. At what point is the pile of new parts you used on the restoration no longer what you started with?

Didn't Boyd Coddington get in a heap of trouble building cars this way? As I remember, after the truth came out, very few of the super high end hot rods he built and sold were legal to register. There were a bunch of really pissed off rich guys.

Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:51 pm

Well like I said this really gets into a gray area. If you replace a few parts you are doing repairs.

If you replace a few parts often, sooner or latter there isn't anything left that rolled out the factory door under that VIN number.

Here in Baltimore we have the USS Constellation sitting in the harbor. It is a war ship that was completed and launched in 1854.

At the time it first sailed wooden war ships had a life expectancy of about 5 years.

Needless to say the ship has undergone many repairs in order to keep it afloat and in shape for the tourists to visit.

By the mid 90's, the ship was in pretty bad shape. They had to remove the masts for fear they would fall off and squish somebody. It also had several feet of "hog" in the bottom of the boat - a condition where the bottom of the boat is pushing up.

In the late 90's the ship was taken across the harbor for a major restoration. I made several trips to see the progress being made on the ship while it was in dry dock being worked on.

After its restoration the ship was put back at the inner harbor for the tourists to see.

But I can tell you there ain't much there that was there before the restoration began! Much of the real structure of the ship had to be replaced. And the lapping on the sides of the ship was replaced with something completely different from its original design.

But the ship is restored. I seriously doubt there is 1 splinter there that actually slipped out of the docks in 1854. But its the same ship right?

The same goes for many of these cars. And at some point what you end up with is not what you started with.

Boyd Cottington got into trouble and so did Carol Shelby, Carol was building Shelbys out of left over parts and titling them as 1965's.

Somebody finally got wise and put a stop to that.