TheSamba.com :: View topic - undercoating or not after extensive body work restoration

Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:34 pm

Although undercoats do not always look good and can be a pretty filthy to shoot I am still hesitating to go for it. At the same time I don't like the fact of being blinded by the undercoat and not being able to see eventual rust proliferate...

My bus underneath has undergone extensive body repair panel, sandblasting and was painted twice with a PPG epoxy primer. Sincerely I am not sure if an undercoat would be more beneficial than harmful

Any thoughs on this one?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:47 pm

If you plan on driving it I say under coat it. I did a bed liner coat it come really close to stock undercoat look an won't chip as easy

Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:48 pm

Use clear Waxoyl everytime for me, I swear by it, I buy a big tin and have one of their pumps to apply it, as well as handy aerosols of it as well, I read on here it is what VW used, after being inspired by the UK dealerships who applied it before the cars left the forecourts. Thousands of old VW and classic car owners use it here in the UK. I assume you have Waxoyl distributors in North America?

Don't use the black Waxoyl, it works just as well, but is used by those who want to hide the condition of the undercarriage!

http://www.hammerite-automotive.com/waxoyl.htm

http://www.hammerite-automotive.com

Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:48 pm

Sorry, double post, HTML / bbcode played up for some reason?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:51 pm

no matter what you do, it will need a topcoat. epoxy is great stuff, but it still needs to be topcoated for maximum protection.

if it was me, i would do a wet on wet (one more coat of epoxy and before it kicks, topcoat with a color of your choice)

i would paint the bottom of the bus in a single stage, doing it in base/clear is suicide.

you have gone this far, i would paint it and leave it. years ago, they made a clear rubberized undercoating. the street rod guys loved it, because of the open wheel cars they would build.

Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:56 pm

If I had just spent a bagOcash getting my underside looking that good I'd want to show it off, burying it beneath fresh undercoating screams "hide that hack" (unless you plan on all gravel roads in the salty winter).

Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:05 pm

Doesn't the undercoating on these also serve as a sound deadener? From what I've seen its applied pretty heavily and that suggests strongly it's there for more than just protection from rocks. Large metal panels can conduct a lot of road noise.

Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:23 pm

eche_bus wrote: Doesn't the undercoating on these also serve as a sound deadener? From what I've seen its applied pretty heavily and that suggests strongly it's there for more than just protection from rocks. Large metal panels can conduct a lot of road noise.

A VW bus does a good job of overwhelming the "noise reduction" aspects of undercoating.

I do an annual rubberized undercoat application after touching it up with any rust-catalyzing primer on little rust nicks. After eight years of applications on the Road Warrior, it was almost self-healing.

Any undercoat (Waxoyl is good stuff) is only as good as the most thorough application. You gotta get over the hidden tops of lines and tubes and blast the undercoating into the crevasses. Then open all drain holes immediately.
Colin

Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:25 pm

eche_bus wrote: Doesn't the undercoating on these also serve as a sound deadener? From what I've seen its applied pretty heavily and that suggests strongly it's there for more than just protection from rocks. Large metal panels can conduct a lot of road noise.
I believe that it is only a very minimal sound deadener. I had a car with no carpet, sound deadener, or undercoating. The undercoating I applied did very little if nothing. If you are doing this good of a restoration Im sure you will not cheap out on the sound deadener.

Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:16 pm

I have heard good things about Fluid-Film. It is clear, so you can see any problems and it doesn't look like you'er hiding rot like the black bed liners do.

It is a natural lanolin oil/wax. Non toxic.

Check out this guys review:
http://shufti.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/vanagon-fluid-film-on-underbody-pics/
http://shufti.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/vanagon-fluid-film-doesnt-taste-that-bad/

Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:27 pm

MsTaboo wrote: I have heard good things about Fluid-Film. It is clear, so you can see any problems and it doesn't look like you'er hiding rot like the black bed liners do.

It is a natural lanolin oil/wax. Non toxic.

Check out this guys review:
http://shufti.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/vanagon-fluid-film-on-underbody-pics/
http://shufti.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/vanagon-fluid-film-doesnt-taste-that-bad/

X2. I spray Fluid Film into the door bottoms and rocker cavities on all my vehicles. It is quite amazing stuff, and creeps into all the hidden corners. The only downside (if you care about such things) is that it eventually creeps to the outside and makes an oily looking smudge on your door bottom/rocker. This can easily be wiped off though, so not a big problem. I sometimes deliberately spray it on the outside before a long trip during the winter. Upon returning home all the road grim/salt etc just wipes off.

Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:27 pm

I used a black waxoyl for my undercarriage and the clear for te cavities. The product is from Germany. There only one dealer in the US that sells the true Waxoyl. I beleive it's a Range Rover dealer restorer. The package I got came with a half gallon of clear and half gallon of black plus the guns Amd long wonds for feeding in the cavities. Cost about $500. It doesn't chip, peel, flake... But it does stay waxy and will rub off on you. It holds zero moisture like rubberized products. Stay away from rubberized undercoatings.

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:54 am

curtis4085 wrote: Cost about $500

$500 :shock: :shock:

All in, half a gallon of clear Waxoyl, the pressure sprayer and the extension probe will set you back GB £45 here in the UK, that's about US $70:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...;langId=-1

As Curtis says, it is clear and literally it is what it is called, a wax like oil with chemicals added. It stops accumulating rust, inhibits new rust, is totally water repellant, gets in all the nooks and crannies, and because the clear stuff is translucent, you can admire the metalwork, and people can see there is no hack job cover up, unlike using the black stuff or underseal.

Be warned, if welding, it should be cleaned off, as it will ignite from a welding arc.

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:41 am

The gun and wands cost $180. It's professional setup. Not some silly pump sprayer. The product cost is not cheap.

http://landroverparts.roversnorth.com/Products.aspx?code=19&key=mr

Please read direction when using. It's flammable and needs time to dry after application.

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:36 am

curtis4085 wrote: The gun and wands cost $180. It's professional setup. Not some silly pump sprayer. The product cost is not cheap.

http://landroverparts.roversnorth.com/Products.aspx?code=19&key=mr

Please read direction when using. It's flammable and needs time to dry after application.

I stand corrected, I only have the silly pump sprayer and the aerosols for top ups, that professional kit you have bought they use at the garage I go to. For the initial coating they put my bus on the lift and done the underneath and inside the cavities, doors etc, which I'm happy to pay for with it being such a messy job, and you get a much better and thorough job with the bus elevated off the floor. I'm going to get them to do a professional top up this year sometime, it's worth every penny.

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:45 am

chimneyfish wrote: curtis4085 wrote: The gun and wands cost $180. It's professional setup. Not some silly pump sprayer. The product cost is not cheap.

http://landroverparts.roversnorth.com/Products.aspx?code=19&key=mr

Please read direction when using. It's flammable and needs time to dry after application.

I stand corrected, I only have the silly pump sprayer and the aerosols for top ups, that professional kit you have bought they use at the garage I go to. For the initial coating they put my bus on the lift and done the underneath and inside the cavities, doors etc, which I'm happy to pay for with it being such a messy job, and you get a much better and thorough job with the bus elevated off the floor. I'm going to get them to do a professional top up this year sometime, it's worth every penny.

The pump kind would work fine if doing just the wheel wells but doing a whole vehicle one would think there arm would fall off with all the pumping needed. ;)

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:45 pm

To do it or not do it probably has more to do with where you are and the climate conditions.

You've got some good primer on it so I'd just do a good complete coverage paint job on it and call it good. Once you hide it with other coatings you can't keep it clean and can't easily watch for any problems. Keeping it clean is the key since any kind of buildup of junk is going to hold moisture and start the destructive mess all over again.
Because of the climate mine doesn't and can't stay wet with any moisture. After 15 years my daily driven bug is protected as well as day 1. There are a few small chips where the final paint shows thru to the intact primer but no other concerns.

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:43 pm

Desertbusman wrote: To do it or not do it probably has more to do with where you are and the climate conditions.

You've got some good primer on it so I'd just do a good complete coverage paint job on it and call it good. Once you hide it with other coatings you can't keep it clean and can't easily watch for any problems. Keeping it clean is the key since any kind of buildup of junk is going to hold moisture and start the destructive mess all over again.
Because of the climate mine doesn't and can't stay wet with any moisture. After 15 years my daily driven bug is protected as well as day 1. There are a few small chips where the final paint shows thru to the intact primer but no other concerns.

Love seeing that Picture. Pure beauty!!

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:01 pm

Desertbusman wrote:

:shock:

VW porn

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:56 pm

obnoxiousblue wrote:

:shock:

VW porn

BAY, even :oops: