TheSamba.com :: View topic - Have Source for Repro Flexi Front Spoiler, Need 2 NOS Parts

Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:19 pm

:?: :arrow: Okay - there is a need in the VW T3/T25 Vanagon/Westfalia etc. owner & restoration community for the high quality OEM flexible front spoiler/air dam which VW put on the 87-91 Vanagons - but they're not available.

The hard resin/plastic 3 piece ones made by Westfalia Werke as a cheaper aftermarket add-on for early vans & sold by Bus Depot & a few others in the USA, UK & Euro-land are not good because they will crack or break when scraped or hit on a curb, wheel stop or steep driveway apron or grade - poof! $200+ down the drain!!!! Whereas the flexible factory ones will give, flex & return to position with only minor scuffing. This is why most quality auto makers now use the flexible spoilers almost exclusively.

I have a source to reproduce the high quality VW OE flexible rubber/plastic front spoiler (air dam) on the factory 87-91 Vanagons, & retrofitted to soem earlier ones by owners. This 5 part spoiler is NLA from VW - 2 of the parts for some time now, and the other 3 are or nealry are NLA also.

1 - A local VW dealer has secured the 2 side + LF pieces for me new - after searching & finding them in Canada - & I think they are pretty close to the last, if not the last new ones out there.

2 - A guy I know from my Porsche 914 restoration who makes excellent repro rubber parts for 914s is very interested in producing repro factory OE correct flexible spoiler parts for these Vanagons. We also think that it's possible to reinforce the one weak spot(s) at the L & R front corners, where the stock ones tend to crack from flexing. We'll be meeting next week (2/15/13) for him to look at the new & old parts I have. He is pretty close to committing to do these, but.....

> Those of you Vanagon/Westy owners here from 914world.com will know "Mikey914" & 914Rubber.com & his high quality products.

3 - We still need the new/NOS RF & Center-front pieces (or a new/NOS complete set of all 5) for him to make molds from, in order to produce these front spoilers, which won't break if scraped/hit as do the 3 piece hard resin/plastic aftermarket ones from current sources (made by Westfalia Werke), which are also more costly to ship due to larger box requirements. You can pay to replace several of those hard resin ones, or get the flexible repro which will lasT3 years - as ours had until a "fender bender" accident last year!

I still need to find these two:

VW p/n: 255-805-904a - Right-Front Spoiler main piece - VW etka Diagram #9

VW p/n: 255-805-905 - Center-Front Spoiler joint piece - VW etka Diagram #11

Is there anyone out there willing to sell or lend the remaining 2 pieces or a full set of 5 pieces - in order to get an excellent factory correct repro front spoiler out there for the T3/T3 Vanagon/Westy community???? :?: :popcorn:

A little background on me, a relatively new member here from SoCal - but a long time Westy OO....

We're original owners of a LHD 1988 VW Vanagon CamperGL Westfalia (USA model) in Dove Blue with Grey interior, +/- 240,000 fun filled miles with wife & 2 kids all over the USA & BC Canada!

Currently doing a rolling restoration including:
> full windows-out repaint - original paint was still a nice 20 footer, but clearcoat was crazing & a fender bender while my wife was driving "her car" forced the issue a few years ahead of schedule;

> various new interior bits, curtain set & other parts which have made Bus Depot, GoWesty & Van Cafe here in the states some cash!

> while the mechanicals & running gear had been updated, replaced or rebuilt in prior years to keep it both a fun trip car & daily driver.

Looking for some New/NOS or Excellent Used OE front spoiler air-dam parts - the flexible poly-ethelene or whatever kind, which are NLA/Obsolete from VW & not at VW Classics either.

As of now I have the 3 main parts from VW according to our local SoCal VW dealership (order in the works, so we'll see if their computer agrees with stock on hand), but I still need to find these two:

VW p/n: 255-805-904a - Right-Front Spoiler main piece - VW etka Diagram #9
(http://www.busdepot.com/255805904a)

VW p/n: 255-805-905 - Center-Front Spoiler joint piece - VW etka Diagram #11
(http://www.busdepot.com/255805905)

I already have the mounting hardware from Bus Depot & one of their supposedly OE Air-dams made by Westfalia Werke as a dealer sold accessory update item, but it's a POS hard resin type which will crack/splinter/shatter/break when hit or scraped (it will be going back).

If I can find all 5 OEM flexible spoiler/air-dam bits in hand, then I may have a source who can make some accurate looking & flexible repro ones, using the new/NOS parts as a model, as well as adding reinforcing to the front corners where they flex & split in normal use. This guy makes the rubber bits & seals for 914 restorations, and they're all excellent products which will pass the Concours review - so he should be able to make the Vanagon Spoilers correctly.

And if they cost more than that Bus Depot/Westfalia hard plastic POS, they will still be cheaper in the long run than replacing several cracked hard plastic ones, and should also outlast the factory OE type due to the planned corner reinforcement.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:11 pm

Hi Tom,
I have a full set. Almost completely new. A little dusty, no scratches. I mounted and then took off before an off-road trip, been sitting in garage ever since.
What kind of guaranty I'll get back as is, and what's it worth to me? A new set for me?
PM me with details.

Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:49 pm

A bit off topic but can the plastic guru make some 16" wheel well extenders for a reasonable price? I think there would be a lot of interest if they were of OEM quality & south of $1000.

Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:14 pm

interested in seeing progress. I'm not sure there is enough buyers though. I think I would ask the folks here how many would buy a set at $x,

I have a few used sets that I've been hoarding.

Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:17 am

I might be interested...but I have a spare set of fairly good used parts.

and I mount my license plate over the small center piece so if it's not there...not such a big deal.

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:35 am

I think its a great idea.
They get scraped up so easily on the lower vans that new ones will be needed for sure.
If you have the means to produce production runs of 100+ sets the price should be equal to stock.
Make sure to offer them to Van Cafe....they support this type of project.

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:43 pm

Thanx for the responses.

I'll know more details after we meet in LA this Friday 2/15/13.

Based on other stuff, I think he needs to sell 50 in a run, & he may offer group buys to get things started, as he does on 914world.com for his 914 parts. He may also or instead hook-up with one or more of the Vanagon/Westy suppliers to retail them out. TBD....

Yes, I've contacted Van Cafe about this possible source, as well as GoWesty, Bus Depot & a couple of outlets in the UK & Germany. The maker will handle production & marketing, since it's his business. He also does other Porsche model parts for Stoddards (356, 911/912, 914), so this fits well with his other repro OE seals & rubber parts lines.

I'm just trying to get things rolling so I have a nice new spoiler set on our newly painted Westy, & a source for any future needed parts when ours gets scraped again! :)

I have many of his 914 parts stockpiled at this point for my 73 914-2.0's resto, so I do know his excellent quality level repro part manufacturing!

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:52 pm

Cool.
I will commit once a prototype can be shown in detail.

Thanks in advance.

Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:12 pm

Met with my guy last Friday, and he has my 3 new & 2 old/original front spoiler parts to go over repro manufacturing process alts. with his shop guys.

I'll hopefully know more in a couple of weeks, but he initially feels that they can be reproduced in the price range of the breakable 3-piece hard resin repro ones made by Westfalia Werke, and what the OE 5-piece flexible VW ones last cost when still available - so roughly $200 - $500 from what I've seen of them for sale at the various outlets.

If he needs the other 2 parts new for "masters" - then I'll PM those who have offered theirs for more details.

Cheers! :popcorn:
Tom :van_blue:
///////

Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:43 pm

If all they make are the two big pieces, I believe the lions share of the market to be covered. Those tend to be the parts that are usually damaged.

Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:49 pm

All or nothing please....I want them to all match perfectly.

Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:57 pm

r39o wrote: If all they make are the two big pieces, I believe the lions share of the market to be covered. Those tend to be the parts that are usually damaged.

Well I can't agree with that, since all 5 of mine were scraped up & tweaked to some degree or another after 24+ years!

Also, replacing some & leaving others faded, grungy & scraped-up will look like crap on a newly painted Vanagon!

I know cuz & have new 2 sides & LF + old original RF & center - which would require me to prep, refinish/paint all 5 - new ones included - for a mixed batch to look right & the old RF would still have a crack in the corner. More work & still wouldn't look right on a freshly restored Westy.

If someone is going to do the good OE repro spoiler - then why not do all 5 pieces & let folks buy what they need? He'll probably give a price break on the set of 5 vs. individual parts.

That's my HO!

Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:37 pm

Tom_T wrote: I know cuz & have new 2 sides & LF + old original RF & center - which would require me to prep, refinish/paint all 5 - new ones included - for a mixed batch to look right
I have a hand full of thoughts on this topic based on what I have experienced and seen in the old car world.

First, are you building a show car?

Do you actually look "that" close down there?

Do you want functional or is pretty so so awfully more important?

As others have noted, Vanagon owners tend to be....welll...cheap. If the parts cost too much, they will forgo, what many consider just trim, these parts all together.

Is it better to get some of the parts or none at all?

Repair kits give you the important bits.

Note, FYI, you "CAN" repair these parts too via the same processes that they use on new car bumpers.

I would be happy enough, to get the two big pieces. Making them look similar via dye (, or shudder, paint,) would not be off the table for me.

No matter what, it will, for many, be hard to justify the cost.

This is MHO.

Let's see what they come up with for this project.

Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:00 pm

Well there is already the choice to leave the spoiler off, fix your own old or a purchased used spoiler & dye or paint it, or to buy the $200 hard resin one from Bus Depot & hope it lasts a few years before cracking or breaking.

Or - if you want a part which will last 10-20 years (again) with the front corners reinforced/thickened where the factory ones tend to split when flexed too much - then you used to spend $4-500 for an OE VW flexible one, but now you have the option to get a better repro one for hopefully a bit less.

If you have a beater Vanagon or Westy, or a hard used DD - then certainly don't spend the money.

However, if you're spending $5000+ to do a full repaint of your Vanagon/Westy, then why let it look half done over 5-10% of that cost.

There are many shops out there buying up the beater Vanagons/Westies/etc. & fixing them up to resell in the high teens to $20k+ - or in GoWesty's case $50-100k - and those buyers won't want a restored Westy with dyed crappy used parts at those prices.

In our case, we've owned our Westy since new & are spending quite a bit more to repaint/refurb/rolling resto it to near new condition - heck, new seals in a Westy alone is many times more expensive, particularly for the grooved window seals. Plus the LF & L side pieces were damaged when another car clipped the LF corner, so there's another reason to offer replacements to folks like us.

So as my Dad used to say: if you're spending enough time & money to do a project - do it right, don't do it half-fast!

No - this new replacement spoiler won't be a solution for the CSOB crowd out there, and you find that split market with any make/model - and it's certainly true with the 914 crowd. However, that doesn't mean that there's not a market out there for 50-100 a year, now that VW is out of all 5 parts AFAIK.

Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:20 pm

make all the parts.

This is MHO.

Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:26 pm

Tom_T wrote: ... So as my Dad used to say: if you're spending enough time & money to do a project - do it right, don't do it half-fast! ...
I hate to break it to you, son, but maybe your father was saying something else!
Good luck on the dams: always great to see someone bringing something back! (All the parts, obviously, not half-slowed!)

Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:10 pm

GreenMachineVW wrote: Tom_T wrote: ... So as my Dad used to say: if you're spending enough time & money to do a project - do it right, don't do it half-fast! ...
I hate to break it to you, son, but maybe your father was saying something else!
Good luck on the dams: always great to see someone bringing something back! (All the parts, obviously, not half-slowed!)

Hmmmm.....ya think!!?? Growing up in my family - both Mom & Dad, & other family elders - all had that twisted sense of humor & we kids all knew it! :D

I've since corrupted my kids & will do my grand kid(s) soon!
.... by the way, I'm actually old old fart now at 60! ....unless you meant "son" in the Cleghorn cartoon rooster sense? :)

His other use of it was when someone did something not quite right & still took too long....
.... "they did it not fast & not slow, just sorta half-fast!" :lol:

Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:34 pm

Definitely in the rooster sense: in reply to ‘father’. I just had to say it before someone twice as fast (twice half-fast?) beat me to it! Probably more like brother. In any event, I am most assuredly going to use the half-fast saying soon! (Just wish I had thought of it.)
I’ve been working on getting the air-dam I procured onto my Vanagon for a few years now. At this rate, I better get off my fast, or consider other alternatives …
Good luck!

Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:41 pm

I broke my bus depot one on a road cone the first week I had it on. Make all five pieces, I'd buy em. If I wanted a cheap van I wouldn't buy a Vw...

Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:01 am

GreenMachineVW wrote: Definitely in the rooster sense: in reply to ‘father’. I just had to say it before someone twice as fast (twice half-fast?) beat me to it! Probably more like brother. In any event, I am most assuredly going to use the half-fast saying soon! (Just wish I had thought of it.)
I’ve been working on getting the air-dam I procured onto my Vanagon for a few years now. At this rate, I better get off my fast, or consider other alternatives …
Good luck!

Well if it's all 5 new pieces still "virgin" NIB from VW, maybe just sit on your "fast" a bit longer & leave it off for awhile, just in case my guy needs the other 2 RF & center front parts NIB for "tooling masters" - as I could only buy 3 of the 5 new from VW last month, and those came to SoCal from Canada! AFAIK they're the last or nearly so, and the 2 are definitely NLA/obsolete now.

That will depend on if they do the tooling from CAD/CAM which won't require new parts since they can "flip" the LF one & my center isn't too bad, or if they need to cast silicone molds from "perfect" OE/OG parts. The approach depends on which manufacturing method his guys decide to use & the tooling/molds required for it.