TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1600 DP+mexican EFI+trigger ignition+amr 500 supercharger

Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:03 pm

Hi

I am looking for some input for my project

• AS 21 case
• Stock p+c, new rings
• Stock crank, 8 doweled, lightened flywheel
• Stock heads, HD single springs and ??? camshaft, stock compression
• Mexican EFI based on Mario@s kit from the dub shop. Megasquirt will control fuel and spark
• 26 mm shadek oil pump with full flow kit from ac.net
• AMR 500 supercharger driven at 2 to 2,5 ratio providing around 8-10 psi boost. Supercharger is going to be driven by a separate pulley attached to the crank pulley. Supercharger will be setup to operate in blow through. Bypass valve to control boost when the throttle is closed.
• SSP stainless steel sidewinder header and exhaust. ( 1 5/8” tubing)

My plan was to use the original cam and followers but they turned out to be worn out. I can get a good deal on an Engle W120 used cam and matching followers but I am uncertain how this will work with my setup. My alternative is to buy a new stock cam or even another performance cam for that matter.
Also which rpm should I set the rev limiter? I have the possibility of balancing the crank+flywheel. This is a motor that will be used for some fun on the road and some blasts at the strip.

All input is much appreciated.

Alex

Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:57 pm

Isn't an AMR too small, even for a 1600? I'd think an SC12 Yoda or something more modern would be better, but if that's all ya got...

Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:24 pm

Rev limiter w/ stock crank and stock, un-lightened pistons should be set @ 5500 rpm.

Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:55 am

I'm also currently building an AMR500 setup for my 1641, with a 175CD Stromberg draw through. It will be driven off a serpentine belt setup. The motor is bog stock, apart from bore size and exhaust. The AMR500 is on the small side for a 1641cc motor, and I'm pretty much doing it only because I have an AMR sitting in my shed, and I want something to do before I finish building my turbo EFI 1915 (longer term project).

IMHO, looking at what you propose, you really wouldn't go to all the effort of building an EFI setup and running a W120 with the AMR500. It is going to be the restricting factor on your engine. An SC12 can also be made to fit, and will offer the performance gain you are looking for. An SC14 is too big to fit without major mods. It is also possible to run twin AMR500s. It is very tight in a T1, but it can be done. With 10psi, you might want to look at some decent pistons as well.

I wish you the best of luck with your project, but if you can swing it, re-consider your blower size, or you might end up doing a lot of work, and then end up disappointed with the finished product.

Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:36 am

Thanks for all the replies

@miniman82
I think that the AMR 500 will work with a stock 1600DP. I have been using this calculator
http://performancetrends.com/Calculators/Superchar...ulator.php

blower belt ratio: 2
engine vol. Efficiency 70%
blower vol. Efficiency: 80%
engine dispacement: 1.6 L
blower displacement: 0,5 L
barometric pressure: 14,7 psi

calculated boost is 8.26 psi.

The amr 500 has a maximun operating speed of 16000 rpm so with a redline @ 5500rpm the supercharger will be spinning @ 11000 rpm which is well within its limits.

The sc12 has a displacement of 1,2 L. Using this displacement in the calculator and getting the same boost as the AMR 500, you need to have a ratio of 0.82. This puts the max rpm for the SC12 @ 4510 rpm (with a 5500 redline). I think at this ratio the charger will be spinning too slow to work effectively.

I have all the EFI stuff and the AMR 500. I just have to put it together. I decided to play safe and go for a new stock cam instead of the W120. I guess we will found out how it works in about a months time.

Alex

Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:38 am

BillMcQuade wrote: I'm also currently building an AMR500 setup for my 1641, with a 175CD Stromberg draw through. It will be driven off a serpentine belt setup. The motor is bog stock, apart from bore size and exhaust. The AMR500 is on the small side for a 1641cc motor, and I'm pretty much doing it only because I have an AMR sitting in my shed, and I want something to do before I finish building my turbo EFI 1915 (longer term project).

IMHO, looking at what you propose, you really wouldn't go to all the effort of building an EFI setup and running a W120 with the AMR500. It is going to be the restricting factor on your engine. An SC12 can also be made to fit, and will offer the performance gain you are looking for. An SC14 is too big to fit without major mods. It is also possible to run twin AMR500s. It is very tight in a T1, but it can be done. With 10psi, you might want to look at some decent pistons as well.

I wish you the best of luck with your project, but if you can swing it, re-consider your blower size, or you might end up doing a lot of work, and then end up disappointed with the finished product.

Thanks! I will post how it ends up working out. It will either be a dog, blow up or end up with some decent power;)

Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:55 am

you might end up doing some pully swaping ,but I think you will like it.

Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:31 pm

Are you planning to mount the blower "flat" or on it's side?

Are you using a vee belt or a serpentine?

As I am using a serpentine belt (5pk), there is a good range of pulleys out there. I am starting out with a Toyota Sprinter waterpump pulley from the 4agze motor. That should give me 8psi @ 4500rpm.

I am mocking the setup on a spare motor, so will take some pics as I go.

Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:48 pm

I'm watching :)

Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:56 am

@ mark: I hope you are right in that I will end up liking it!

@Bill: I have not yet decided 100% which route to take. I am leaning mostly towards the side configuration. This way the stock supercharger manifolds point upwards sort of like a V. The arrangement I am thinking is a filter right on the stock intake manifold. On the output side of the supercharger, I will mount a t-piece made of silicon tubing (for the bypass valve) and the a silicon bend to the throttle body.
The challenge of running in the configuration I want to run is that, you cannot use the intake manifold to support the charger. The mexican EFI intaker centerpiece bolts to where the fuel pump used to go. I am thinking of attaching a plate to the two studs where the manifold goes that will form the base for the supercharger. I am going to tie in on the exhaust stud on the other side. I hope this will be solid enough….I might also have to machine off some material from the EFI centerpiece so it lines up with the sidepieces. The supercharger will be placed sort of in the area where the distributor used to be.
My block is off to get checked out, I will start mocking up when i get it back.

@Mario: good! I have sent you an email with some questions;)

Alex

Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:04 pm

I had a day off yesterday, so I got inspired to build the inlet manifold and sundry bits. I still have to put the "pitch/yaw" brace from the AMR to the block, and obviously the carburetor intake runner, but I ran out of Argon :(

I am using a larger than stock pulley to restrict boost to around 4.5 psi. The motor is stock upsized to 1641cc. It is my daily drive so I want to be kind to it.

The 1915 turbo build is sitting on the floor next to it, waiting for parts :D

Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:32 am

Looking good there.

How are you going to be tensioning the belt?

Alex

Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:46 pm

Alexios wrote: Looking good there.

How are you going to be tensioning the belt?

Alex

Cheers :D

I'm using an EMPI serpentine belt setup, that has the tensioner on the alternator stand. To get the belt contact area correct on the alternator, I flipped the tensioner in it's slide and drilled another hole for the adjustment bolt. I will post a pic when I have it all mocked up again.

Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:15 am

Buddy has been running one on his stock 1600 and is using a stock modified carb for some time now. runs well as he drives it daily. I think he even has one for sale in the classifieds here. Think he has a thread too. Look up his screen name, el mao

Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:54 pm

Alexios wrote:
The sc12 has a displacement of 1,2 L. Using this displacement in the calculator and getting the same boost as the AMR 500, you need to have a ratio of 0.82. This puts the max rpm for the SC12 @ 4510 rpm (with a 5500 redline).

The problem with overdriving an AMR500 to get the same boost is they will do it for a while but sooner or later they will crap out from heat related failure, I've seen a few cases of this and one was only a stock 1500sp running 6psi.

Also a W120 is way too much cam, I had a cam similar to a W110 on my 1776 with an SC12 and even that was too much cam under 2000rpm, much happier with a stock or close to cam.

Alexios wrote:
The sc12 has a displacement of 1,2 L. Using this displacement in the calculator and getting the same boost as the AMR 500, you need to have a ratio of 0.82. This puts the max rpm for the SC12 @ 4510 rpm (with a 5500 redline). I think at this ratio the charger will be spinning too slow to work effectively.

I started off at 6psi with mine and it was fine, ended up at 10psi though, damn boost is addictive