TheSamba.com :: View topic - Rebuilding a TDi engine,AHU :want brand for parts?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:39 pm

Aloha all!

I'm rebuilding an AHU Tdi engine that I just got.
It was flooded several years ago.

As far as Piston Rings,what brand would you choose between the followings?:

>>>>NPR @ $79.95 a set
>>>>Grant @ $35.06 a set
>>>> Goetze (Federal Mogul) @ $34.95 a set

Crankshaft Bearings:

>>>>Glyco (with a said new design??) @ $52.89 a set http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_III--TDI/Engine/Mechanical/ES5467/

>>>> Kolbenschmidt (KB,which is what VW sells) @ $39.50 a set

As far as connecting rod bearings I found only Glyco.

Thank you guys 8)

Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:13 am

I would choose the Goetze rings.

Inspect and plastigage the original mains. Unless bad oil was run for a long time, they are usually in spec for new parts. Replacing them will just increase wear on the crank.

Rod bearing on the 1.9s take more of a beating. Either KS or Glyco are fine.

If the crank bearing are out of spec for new parts, then be sure that you do NOT use integral thrust main bearings. There are lots of folks who have and the smaller contact area results in the crank getting chewed up. This can be exacerbated by starting the engine with the clutch depressed or sitting at stop lights with the clutch depressed rather than in neutral with the clutch released. Regardless the original non-integral thrust bearings are still available from Glyco.

Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:02 am

Good morning Andrew!

thank you for your advise for the piston rings :wink:

As for the main bearings,I'm confused by your answer (english is my second language) and I would like to make sure I understood correctly:

I need to use non-integral thrust main bearings :which ones are the "thrust", and by non-integral,what does it mean?
Should they look different than the original VW/KB?

I didn't plastiguage the main bearings yet,since I didn't plan on re-using them:the engine had oil with water and silt for years,and when it has been spun by hand,some tiny scruff marks appeared on the main bearing as a result.I didn't know putting new bearings would increase the wear.At this point,is it still better to put new bearings in?

Thank you again.

Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:10 am

I think he's talking about using thrust shims like these half moon items on the right.

I think the other type just use a slight shoulder on a couple of the bearings.

Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:18 am

Hi Casey 8)

I found Glyco and KB brand for these,almost the same price.

Let's see what Andrew says .

Cheers

Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:39 pm

The main bearings on these engines often do not wear at all after initial break-in unless the engine is run low in oil or with very old dirty oil in it. I have taken apart engines with over 200,000 miles on them where the main bearing to crank clearance was still within spec for new parts and nowhere near the wear limit. If your bearings are in good condition and measure within spec for new parts you should *not* replace them. Replacing them will only cause the crank to wear more as it does it's initial wear-in with the new bearings. Often folks want 'all new bearings' but if the old bearings are not out of spec they are just introducing wear to the crank. The easiest way to test the bearing clearances is to use plastigage which is available at most FLAPS, cheap and easy.

If your main bearings are out of spec or damaged in some other way, then be sure to use the non-integral thrust main bearings and the separate thrust shims. ALL the kolbenschmidt main bearings I have seen have been the integral thrust version and so I do not recommend using them. Glyco makes BOTH integral and non-integral thrust bearings and the separate shims. The ones you linked are the integral ones and so not recommended. You may have to contact them to find a distributor that will get the non-integral thrust bearings for you. Usually the axial play is still within spec, so just getting the mains and reusing the thrust shims is all that is needed. If you cannot find a source for the non-integral thrust ones and your axial play is within spec, you could reuse two of your old main shells or get two sets of ,mains and use two of the non-thrust shells with the thrust shims.

Clear as mud?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:43 pm

Ok,clear as mud :lol: :lol:

So I understood everything but what the difference is between integral and non-intergral thrust main bearings gets me confused.

I think what you are saying is that the spacer shims are built-in with the integral main thrust bearings?

I will try to make pictures of the main bearing when the engine block comes back from de-glazing.

Aloha and thank you again Andrew,your knowledge is well appreciated :-)

Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:55 am

ALIKA T3 wrote: Ok,clear as mud :lol: :lol:

I think what you are saying is that the spacer shims are built-in with the integral main thrust bearings?

Correct... Integral thrust bearings are built into the bearing, one piece. Has a shoulder on the sides that stick up past the journals. The originals are the separate C-shaped shims that ride next to the thrust surfaces. If they're in good condition, re-use them, I've not come across any new ones from vendors, but they must be available.

Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:04 am

This place lists them.

http://www.gowestyautoparts.com/1998,Volkswagen,JE...54022-291/

And the std bearings without the shoulder.

http://www.gowestyautoparts.com/1998,Volkswagen,JE...54023-291/

Mark

Syncroincity wrote: ..... Integral thrust bearings are built into the bearing, one piece. Has a shoulder on the sides that stick up past the journals. The originals are the separate C-shaped shims that ride next to the thrust surfaces. If they're in good condition, re-use them, I've not come across any new ones from vendors, but they must be available.

Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:37 am

Thanks for the links Mark. I keep being impressed with the parts availability of the GoWesty cost plus 10% site. Very cool.

The integral thrust mains have the two #3 shells that include the thrust shoulder. The Glyco ones you linked previously are integral thrust with the two #3 shells to the far left of this picture:

The ones linked by Mark are the non-integral thrust bearings with the separate thrust shims.

The actual thrust surface area of the integral thrust bearings is about 1/2 that of the original thrust shims and has a tendency to wear into the crank thrust surface ruining the crankshaft.

Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:57 am

Cool thank you guys!!!

On another note what do you think of that 360 degree oil ring on #4 sold by Ecs tuning? Could i cut the #3 with a dremel and put the regular shims in in case i would like to benefit from that feature on #4?

Cheers :)

Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:41 am

If you get the Glyco mains that don't have the thrust shoulders, then there is an extra grooved bearing. I have looked at the crank/rod oiling channels on our engines and don't see why it would need a full groove but it won't hurt anything.

Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:44 am

Even better 8) 8)

I will take a look at the block when it comes back from the shop :-)