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Sun May 05, 2013 10:31 pm

luVWagn wrote: msewalson wrote: I had this same problem when I installed a 98 EJ22 into my Syncro. I also thought it was related to VSS but it was throwing a generic code related to IAC valve.

But, the problem is caused by no neutral position switch and one of the wires needs to be grounded. I can't recall which wire/ pin number, but once I grounded that wire no more stalling. If I find some time I'll try to look through my notes to figure out which pin number it was, no promises though since I'm heading out on a month long trip in the van.

Matt

The OP does have an auto. I've definitely read about issues regarding neutral position switch, automatics, and suby conversions... BUT I thought that was related to cruise as well, and mostly an idle surge going from neutral to D.

Does the OP have stock cruise as well?

Additionally, not sure the OP mentions which Suby swap was done? EJ22 or EJ25?

Engine is EJ22. It is stock cruise, and Bus Lab did recommend against using cruise control much, if at all, for the first 1000 miles or so.

Matt, I would appreciate it if you did find which pin number it is. Have fun on your trip!

Mon May 06, 2013 1:55 am

joshr wrote: luVWagn wrote: msewalson wrote: I had this same problem when I installed a 98 EJ22 into my Syncro. I also thought it was related to VSS but it was throwing a generic code related to IAC valve.

But, the problem is caused by no neutral position switch and one of the wires needs to be grounded. I can't recall which wire/ pin number, but once I grounded that wire no more stalling. If I find some time I'll try to look through my notes to figure out which pin number it was, no promises though since I'm heading out on a month long trip in the van.

Matt

The OP does have an auto. I've definitely read about issues regarding neutral position switch, automatics, and suby conversions... BUT I thought that was related to cruise as well, and mostly an idle surge going from neutral to D.

Does the OP have stock cruise as well?

Additionally, not sure the OP mentions which Suby swap was done? EJ22 or EJ25?

Engine is EJ22. It is stock cruise, and Bus Lab did recommend against using cruise control much, if at all, for the first 1000 miles or so.

Matt, I would appreciate it if you did find which pin number it is. Have fun on your trip!
I highly recommend joining the SubaruVanagon group on Yahoo. This very topic has been discussed there numerous times, including various resolutions including Matt's information about Neutral-switch pin, as well as other information about pulling or modifying the cruise-control relay.

Fri May 24, 2013 7:06 am

I don't want to hijack the original thread.
I have it too. but on a conversion that was ok for few years.
(EJ22 1994 on a 87 manual).
I am puzzled. the conversion is like 5 y.o.
It used to stall at stops after highway. I installed a VSS emulator/simulator from enginewiring.com few weeks after conversion.
It killed 99% of the stalling.

But now it does it again. I checked the VSS simulator. Still there, plugged, clean, etc as the ECU is.
I remember when I installed it, the ilding changed a bit, with mini surges, like 650rpm tp 750rpm every 3 seconds or so. instead of a steady idling. (650rpm).
It still does it, so I assume it still works. or still active. can it be partly broken?

I have no idea where to look.

JP

Sat May 25, 2013 1:07 pm

the stalling thing ramped up from once every couple months to every week to every day and finally 3 times in one 30 minuet drive to work through town.

then wouldn't start after work. towed it to my dyno shop and for them it fired right up. 3 weeks later it still will not stall for them so they have nothing to diagnose.

meanwhile all systems they have checked look fine. all clues I can find on the net I email to them.

it's quite frustrating. thinking about buying a 2nd vehicle as borrowing the truck from work sucks.

Sun May 26, 2013 3:37 am

my 97 EJ22 goes through periods of stalling. It happens when there is a sudden drop in RPM...like when hit the clutch to downshift coming off the highway.

there are two factors contributing... the ECU needs to be in "manual transmission mode" if its in auto mode, it doesn't expect this sort of behavior. you can get around this by keeping the revs up (on a manual anyways) similar to double clutching...at least until you ground the ECU pin to put it into manual mode. (not grounded is automatic mode by default)

the other issue is the lack of a neutral position switch, which is independent of the transmission mode. Without a switch telling the ECU that the van is in neutral you're kinda stuck just dealing with this. you can rig something up, which I may do...putting a switch on the clutch or similar. I'm confident this will resolve the stalling, but its a pain in the ass.

Sun May 26, 2013 8:06 am

Do you Guys with stalling issues have the power steering and AC idle advances hooked up?

I have found that the PS switch actually sends a signal sometimes during clutch in, quick decels....like off cloverleafs.
I see a quick bump in RPMs and than my idle RPM....no stalling.

Some harness modifications I have seen over the years will allow for voltage drops to the ECU.....this will cause an immediate stall.

What I have done a few times while testing for the stalling issue is monitor the voltage at the alt while driving....if you see it up and down during quick decels, it may be impacting the ECU power supply.

These are just shots in the dark from my experiences with the Sub 4 bangers.

Sun May 26, 2013 9:10 am

Is anyone having this issue with a newer EJ25...say 2008 or newer??

Sun May 26, 2013 10:40 am

with an aftermarket ecu, I don't think I have PS or AC idle advance...I don't have PS or AC anyway.

I don't think I have an 'automatic mode' either, at least on the ecu. the oem part of the engine harness may have wires for that...

watching for low rpms and bliping the throttle like I have poorly adjusted carbs is not going to work. I can't drive like that. I'm gonna rear end someone splitting my attention driving that way or get rear ended when I suddenly stall in front of someone not paying strict attention to me. these situations have already come up. so as far as I'm concerned, the thing is un-driveable.

I'm waiting for an acceptance email from yahoo vanagon-subaru groups. I hope theres a way to search their conversations for stuff like this.

I really want to like my ECU. I hope it's a bad wire or vac leak or something not related to it. otherwise I don't know...gonna have to source a new harness and buy an SDS ECU and have Tom Shiels build me a new harness. somewhere I read a guy's webpage with an EZ30 in an airplane. he was using SDS and you best not be stalling out while airborne ! I really hate to think about that though...another 3k or so

if not that...buy some webbers off an old 911 and run the v-tech off a centrifugal advance on the crank. goddamn electronics :x

one thing I remember about the guy with the airplane, he had adapted a 2.5 cable pull throttle body and he'd carved a slot in his adapter plate so the engine could still have some air intake for idle when the throttle body was closed. the guy didn't want to run the stock fly by wire setup.

Sun May 26, 2013 11:25 am

First off my van is an 87 Syncro tintop. Donor was 1998 Legacy with EJ22, single port exhaust and manual trans.

My van would run great on the highway and in town, stop & go, until it got up to operating temp. Once this occurred it would just stall when coming to a stop. I have a scan gauge hooked up and pulled the codes to find a code being thrown for the IAC, the code was P1507. After cleaning my IAC and doing a bunch of research online mainly in Subaru forums I found that this code was a phantom code and not really related to the IAC. Also if I recall correctly most fixes being listed in the forums for this code were done by replacing the neutral position switch. FYI, cleaning the IAC didn't help and the van would still stall. After speaking with RMW, since they did my harness, we were able to determine that pin 82, neutral position switch, wasn't grounded but needed to be. I tied it in with another wire near the ecu plug that was grounded and haven't had any problems since, over 6000 miles.

Matt

Sun May 26, 2013 12:00 pm

what's the IAC ? ...oh idle air controll :)

is the neutral position switch on the engine harness somewhere or in the stock ECU ? I think my engine was originally in an automatic but my ECU I don't think is made to work with an automatic so I don't think it's got a neutral switch or anything like that.

Sun May 26, 2013 12:35 pm

I assume both since there's wires in the harness for it and pins in the ecu as well. Having a after market ecu puts you in a different boat. I would check if the after market ecu is looking for a neutral position switch. I think both manuals and autos have some type of neutral or park position switch.

What ecu are you using and who did your harness?

Matt

Sun May 26, 2013 12:43 pm

Link G4 Extreme
http://www.linkecu.com/products/engine-management-ecus/g4-xtreme
with an e-throttle
http://www.linkecu.com/products/InstallationAccessories/OutputConditioners/e-throttle-module

reason for the aftermarket ecu is all the anti theft in the stock wiring, and this one will run the variable valve lift/timing. it's a well thought of ECU with the Subaru guys.

and the harness I'm told was built by Eric Abercrombie

Sun May 26, 2013 12:53 pm

I guess I would contact link but I doubt the ecu is looking for a neutral or park position switch. I assume the system is OBD II. Can you check to see if its throwing any codes and if so what are they.

Matt

Sun May 26, 2013 1:23 pm

no codes. the Link will not log codes unless it's set to datalog. which I haven't had a chance to do. and I don't know if this error would generate a code anyway.
I've written Link and got this regarding the not starting after the stall...
----------------------------------
if the ECU is staying powered up for a time after the key is turned off.
This will cause the ECU not to prime the fuel pump and will likely indicate a back feed from some thing on AUX output.
Its not going to be the cause of the stalling though
----------------------------------

regarding codes and VSS I got this...

----------------------------------
Unfortunately not it only records maximum readings for some inputs or functions.
Only real way will be to catch it with a laptop at the time.
If you have a laptop connected it will catch 10-15 seconds before you request logging.
A speed input would be worth while and will help but might not fix the issue.
The Engine will need some throttle opening to idle if it shuts totally it will stall
----------------------------------

to set it to datalog, I need to install a cord from the ECU to the dash. just haven't got to it. got all the parts though.
these are can-bus cords and dash display. I don't know if that's OBDII or what. I just know it's teh supa spendy stuff heh. :lol: :) :(

so Simon here (at Link) is saying VSS could help but may not fix ? and Coughy up here is saying the stalling is coming back. I feel like I'm looking at a new piece of yard art. but I am determined to make it work if I bankrupt myself in the process !