TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu May 16, 2013 10:33 am

Newbie mechanic here.

I am going to be pulling out my tranny to get it sent away for a rebuild. I feel confident enough to pull the tranny then replace it thanks to this post.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=288346&sid=650bc1aee0c41abaf804b38a76d347bf

While the tranny was out I wanted to replace the main seal behind the flywheel. I watched the Boston Bob video where he measures the flywheel end play and adds different shims. I definitely don't have those skills.
http://www.vwvid.com/m/videos/view/Boston-Bob-Flywheel-Video-VW-Vanagons-Picasa-Web-Albums
So my question is, is it that important to adjust the flywheel end play or can I just re-bolt the flywheel back on without to much worry?

Thu May 16, 2013 11:39 am

I did exactly what you are doing a couple months ago.

Another member on here (Alaric) was kind enough to bring over the factory tools to measure endplay and set the seal, and after going through the boston bob proceedure the endplay was dead on in the range with no adjustment. (200k on the motor).

I think a lot of this has to do with whether you are confident that you have the original shims and flywheel and they are undamaged (I had the flywheel resurfaced by the way). I think that if nobody had previously messed around with these items they should be good to go.

Id like to understand what causes endplay changes over time (through just use) which would necessitate adjusting the shims, which would really answer your question.

Thu May 16, 2013 12:20 pm

Unless you have a Type 1 VW engine in your Vanagon the endplay has most likely not changed since the engine was built. Checking it requires few skills. For starters you can use a bar against the pulley to force the crank forward while someone alternately pushes in on and releases the clutch. You should be able to detect extremely little or zero fore/aft movement in the pulley. We are talking only ~0.004" here.

If you can detect more than the tiniest movement, then you have a problem which probably can not be solved by just adjusting the thickness of the shim pack.

Thu May 16, 2013 4:42 pm

all it takes is a dial indicator and a magnetic arm to check the endplay. these can both be had at harbor frieght on the cheap. if you can remove the flywheel and replace the main seal, then you can adjust the endplay.

Thu May 16, 2013 5:43 pm

Wildthings wrote: Unless you have a Type 1 VW engine in your Vanagon the endplay
has most likely not changed since the engine was built...
This is what my buddy said, too...I was on a deadline & nowhere near a cheap
dial indicator, so I eyeballed it just for giggles (piece of angle iron & my
feeler gauges). Nothing seemed to be way more/less than .005 so I just
bolted it up & it's been running like a dream...YMMV...

I was a little disappointed I missed my chance to <need> a dial indicator,
but there's always the next time... :wink:

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:29 pm

I pulled my flywheel off yesterday to find that the biggest of the three shims had been chewed up in four pieces. taking a closer look at the FW thrust surface, a quarter of the way in from the edge it looks like it was bead blasted with steel shot or something. It almost looks like exposed cast surface rather than machined surface, which I might even suspect if the rough area weren't level of not raised relative to the machined surface. Anybody ever seen anything like this or have any idea why it might develop will be given this texture?

Anyway, the only dial indicator I could find was a chinese deal at Harbor freight that connects to a pair of vise grips with an 8" arm on it. Seems kinda screwy. Anybody tried setting FW end play using one of these? If so, did you clamp the grips to one of the bolts?

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:43 pm

The broken pieces of shim could have "peened" the surface. A picture would be awesome. As far as the dial indicator, any dial indicator needs to be zeroed. If you pull the plunger away and release, it should always return to the same spot. If not, you have a too cheap dial indicator or your mount is moving. You need it to always zero to be accurate. Always best to measure endplay prior to removing the flywheel.

Not seeing yours, I'd be looking for another flywheel and some new shims. That should be a hardened surface and I don't think surface grinding will yield a good enough result.

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:58 pm

Why wouldn't you resurface it? I just now pulled up to Northwest Connecting r
Rod to do so.

Thanks for input re: the dial indicator. I definitely would not be surprised if this thing is too chinese to work.

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:12 pm

The clutch disc surface and flywheel mounting can be resurfaced. I just don't know how well the shim side of the flywheel will do resurfacing it. Post up some pictures.

Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:07 pm

Well, the issue of whether to have the flywheel resurfaced is behind me, Jerry at Northwest connecting rod knows his shit to put it lightly. However, I just got back under the van to tinker with the endplay and noticed when I popped out the shim with the protruding tooth that it and -worrisomely- also the aluminum on the block itself had been chewed up by the screwball FW thrust surface/broken fat shim combo. Ugh.

EDIT: re: The harbor freight DI + vice-grip thingy: it's a complete joke. I had to source a proper magnetic armature and borrowed a swiss-mfg DI. Not sure there's any point though, considering the above headache

Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:27 am

Harbor freight sells the magnetic arm as well. That's where I got mine. Its one of the only tools I use that harbor freight sells. Of course, its so basic, its not like there's much risk for failure.

Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:38 am

the part you don't get from watching the boston bob video is that finding shim packs is pretty darn tricky. the only person that seems to make them is NLA: http://www.bus-boys.com/parts1.9.html#flywheel

the main reason you want to do this is to detect if you should bother putting this engine back in the van.

here is my cheapo measurement technique

Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:35 am

I am switching an engine from an Auto Vanagon into my manual Vanagon. The auto has a flex plate and the manual has a flywheel. I am guessing I will need to check and possibly adjust the end play with the appropriate shims prior to fitting the flywheel. Is this correct.

Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:16 am

Luckyphil wrote: I am switching an engine from an Auto Vanagon into my manual Vanagon. The auto has a flex plate and the manual has a flywheel. I am guessing I will need to check and possibly adjust the end play with the appropriate shims prior to fitting the flywheel. Is this correct.

You should check the end play on the engine before you remove the flywheel and recheck the endplay when you install the flex plate.

Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:25 pm

Thanks for the reply but its the other way around. I am removing the flex plate and installing a flywheel.

Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:34 pm

Luckyphil wrote: Thanks for the reply but its the other way around. I am removing the flex plate and installing a flywheel.

Same deal. Ideally they would interchange, but that is why there are quite a few shim combinations. On a used engine, I'd want to maintain the endplay, not tighten it up if it is close to spec. Assuming it was setup correctly prior if the endplay is out of spec, something is wearing out and overshimming, could aggravate the problem.

Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:05 pm

The big diameter endplay shim is still available in Europe. I was not able to find any in North America last year.

Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:13 pm

Here's a link that works.
http://picasaweb.google.com/101290228103300323836/...2201103922

Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:57 pm

I did the same thing last year. The Boston Bob video really explained everything perfectly. I purchased the Harbor Freight dial, its very good value. Just be careful not to drop it its super sensitive. The hardest part of the job was finding the correct shims. I ended by buying overpriced shims locally. I believe Van-cafe has the correct shims. You just have to call or Email them since it is not listed on their site. I'm not Sure about BusDepot or GoWesty.

Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:41 pm

rsxsr wrote: Luckyphil wrote: Thanks for the reply but its the other way around. I am removing the flex plate and installing a flywheel.

Same deal. Ideally they would interchange, but that is why there are quite a few shim combinations. On a used engine, I'd want to maintain the endplay, not tighten it up if it is close to spec. Assuming it was setup correctly prior if the endplay is out of spec, something is wearing out and overshimming, could aggravate the problem.

This is very important. A lot of Type 1 engines have been killed by people trying to tighten up the end play on an old engine. If the endplay was once correct you can not change the shims to reduce it or you risk locking the crank to the thrust bearing. The WBXer engines don't have as much problem with excessive end play as the Type 1 engines, but you still need to think twice about trying to reduce endplay on a used engine.