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Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:49 pm

I bet here in NC it may become more difficult. I've heard rumors out-lawing rails for years. No fenders... My glass buggy is titled as a 73 beetle. Tax on it every year was cheap. They valued it at $300 bucks. Now it qualifies as an antique! 10 times what it was last year! Just because it became one year older! I'm going to challenge this.

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:42 pm

buggy2430 wrote: I bet here in NC it may become more difficult. I've heard rumors out-lawing rails for years. No fenders... My glass buggy is titled as a 73 beetle. Tax on it every year was cheap. They valued it at $300 bucks. Now it qualifies as an antique! 10 times what it was last year! Just because it became one year older! I'm going to challenge this.

The state is looking for increased revenues. Don't fight it, or you'll potentially end up making it tougher on everyone else with a buggy in NC... bnc

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:39 pm

For some reason I thought you might chime in. You are just as afraid the loonies in Raleigh might pick up on this as I am. Why you seem to be an adversary as a fellow buggy owner I will never know.

Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:22 am

Well, I'm in Texas and rebuilding the buggy I bought out-of-state a while back. I'm too deep into it with too much spent to stop now. But I've got to say I'm concerned. A lot of us have invested more than just money in our projects. I hope there's a way through this for all of us. You fellas that are doing the research, keep us posted. And let us know if there is anything we can do to help get this clarified in a way that serves us all.
cd

Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:31 am

ceedee wrote: Well, I'm in Texas and rebuilding the buggy I bought out-of-state a while back. I'm too deep into it with too much spent to stop now. But I've got to say I'm concerned. A lot of us have invested more than just money in our projects. I hope there's a way through this for all of us. You fellas that are doing the research, keep us posted. And let us know if there is anything we can do to help get this clarified in a way that serves us all.
cd

Just make sure you build with quality in mind. Make sure you use DOT approved lights and such. Try not to say you built it at home. Don't say "dune buggy" as this is a trip word. If you have issues call the number I posted above. Based on my conversations with TDMV I have a feeling they may clarify some terms with there minion. Lets hope, anyway. Good luck.

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:38 am

saying "Dune Buggy" is not the problem.... They are trying to get everyone that is driving around in a buggy titled and registered as a Beetle to do it the correct way.

I have 2 fiberglass buggies.

one is title as a 68 Desert Fox Spoiler
and the other as a 70 Meyers Manx

My EMPI is titled as a 65 EMPI Sportster

Just took a little extra paperwork on my part, but they are done the right way

Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:14 am

Alma Jo, I have absolutely no problem with doing it the right way. To tell the truth, I've always thought what you described is the way it should have been done all along. Never felt trying to call it a "19-something 2 door VW" was quite honest for registration or insurance purposes, and might cause problems down the line.

You mentioned "a little extra paperwork". Would you mind walking me through it sometime when you get a chance?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:25 am

jamboguru wrote: saying "Dune Buggy" is not the problem.... They are trying to get everyone that is driving around in a buggy titled and registered as a Beetle to do it the correct way.

I have 2 fiberglass buggies.

one is title as a 68 Desert Fox Spoiler
and the other as a 70 Meyers Manx

My EMPI is titled as a 65 EMPI Sportster

Just took a little extra paperwork on my part, but they are done the right way

Do what you will. If you have an issue call the number I posted. That’s all…

I have been dealing with them on this because I am planning to move my business down there. I am here to tell you, they are actively trying to clean the roads up.
This thread was started by someone who had the very issue we are talking about. I have an interest in making sure Texas will allow buggies. If not I will not be moving there.
I can not just stick my head in the sand and hope it will all work out because some guy on the "World Wide Web" said it is all okay.

Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:56 am

Tom, been following these posts since the beginning, especially yours. You've been doing the heavy lifting here and I, for one, appreciate it. As usual there are a lot ridiculous posts here, but maybe jamboguru has an answer we can live with. I'm willing to listen.

As you say, they're trying to clean up the roads. That's not necessarily a bad thing. What would be a bad thing (a very bad thing) would be getting in the way of anyone like yourself who want to come here and contribute to the economy and do something positive for a lot of folks who would love to have you here.

I don't want to rely on "hope", but I don't know how to get the bureaucracy to quantify and clarify its position. I'm going to give that number a call and see if there's something I can do.

Thanks again Tom

Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:10 am

ceedee wrote: Tom, been following these posts since the beginning, especially yours. You've been doing the heavy lifting here and I, for one, appreciate it. As usual there are a lot ridiculous posts here, but maybe jamboguru has an answer we can live with. I'm willing to listen.

As you say, they're trying to clean up the roads. That's not necessarily a bad thing. What would be a bad thing (a very bad thing) would be getting in the way of anyone like yourself who want to come here and contribute to the economy and do something positive for a lot of folks who would love to have you here.

I don't want to rely on "hope", but I don't know how to get the bureaucracy to quantify and clarify its position. I'm going to give that number a call and see if there's something I can do.

Thanks again Tom

They were very accommodating and they have the same view as you do in regards to me moving my business down there. In fact that is probably why they stayed on top of it. They kept me informed every step of the way as they searched positions and with clarity. I have to say, I was very surprised at the great service I did get. Every bureaucracy should be so attentive.

Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:59 am

ceedee wrote: Alma Jo, I have absolutely no problem with doing it the right way. To tell the truth, I've always thought what you described is the way it should have been done all along. Never felt trying to call it a "19-something 2 door VW" was quite honest for registration or insurance purposes, and might cause problems down the line.

You mentioned "a little extra paperwork". Would you mind walking me through it sometime when you get a chance?

Just follow the steps on pages 25-15 and 25-16 in the Texas Title Manual.... http://ftp.txdmv.gov/pub/txdot-info/vtr/title_manual_book_451.pdf or call the number above since they are the division that writes the manual.....as long as your paper work has the info for make and model of your pre fab body you can title it that way.... If you do not have that info then it shows how to title it as a current year build. I did the Spoiler 5 years ago and have never had any problems with Texas or insurance

Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:13 pm

I got my Rejection letter from the state of Texas last week. According to the Letter there is no longer a category for assembled Vehicles.

I started with a Chenowth Chassis with a tag on it with the Chassis Model Number and Serial Number on it. Of course it is made with a VW Swing arm rear end, and King pin front end.

According to the Letter I received What I was trying to title was made from several different vehicles and not made from one vehicle. It also did not classify as a rebodied vehicle, because I did not start with a NTHSA approved Chassis.

I know there is a Buggy maker that was moving from the North East to Texas, they have put their move on hold, do to the new law passed in April of this year. They are working with the state to reinstate the Assembled Category so they can title their chassis.

Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:21 pm

we just need to get a fellow aircooler to get one of the positions that has the power to make/change the rules....

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:32 pm

Now I'm really confused. The manual and pages referenced by jamboguru specifically address Manxes and other bodies built on a VW floorpan. It also includes a section on "assembled" vehicles. Grumpy said he's been officially informed that these have been eliminated as of April this year. The date on this manual is April 2013!! Somebody in Austin has got it wrong.

Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:23 pm

buggy2430 wrote: For some reason I thought you might chime in. You are just as afraid the loonies in Raleigh might pick up on this as I am. Why you seem to be an adversary as a fellow buggy owner I will never know.

I'm not an adversary to fellow buggy owners; I live in the Triangle & unfortunately know some of the paper-pushing non-car liberal jackholes that work in State government & DOT/DMV. What I'm tired of is people doing 'the wrong thing' in many cases by trying to title/register a vehicle, then they act innocent or confrontational by stating "it's my RIGHT to own/build/possess/etc this widget". Or when people get offended that the State would jack up the determined valuation of a vehicle in order to pay a cheaper tax.

I've been through this before with an older restored Mercedes, but it was in the opposite direction: the state determined that the vehicle's value (for tax purposes) was $20,000 on collectors market. Had to get three comparable prices from current market assessments / 3 appraisals, all of which were LOWER than what the State assessed as the vehicles' value, then petition the DMV to LOWER the assessed value in their computers. You're trying to go the opposite way, by having them call your chassis a 19XX Volkswagen & have car valued at $300 or so. THIS is why the State has in some years past decided to set the Base Valuation of older vehicles at maybe $1,000 or so... because people were showing photos of a clapped-out car & saying that they paid $100 for it & to use that $100 as the base taxable value. The State caught on to what was going on & opted to set a higher minimum base rate, or whatever they call the figure.

I'm not the bad guy, but there were a bunch of people jerking the system. And now the rest of us pay for that abuse. BTW: There's ZERO right to register or title a vehicle - it is, however, a privilege...

Tom/Texas buggiers:

Good luck in your efforts to win over Texas - may you find a solution that is favorable to your plans.

bnc

Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:52 pm

Didget: You seem to be missing the point entirely. The issue that concerns nearly everyone who has posted on this thread has nothing to do with an arbitrary valuation created by the state or the owners. (there was one but he's not in Texas) Its about changing horses midstream on the part of the state. Changing the rules without providing clear recourse. And, if the current manual for titling is to be believed, ignoring their own published rules to the detriment of dedicated vehicle owners who are simply trying to enjoy their hobby in a proper and lawful manner.

In your case, the state provided you with recourse, i.e., get three valuations. Problem solved! That is in no way similar to what we are discussing here.

I can agree with you that there are those few who will abuse their privileges creating a bad situation for those who do not. Happens all the time in this country. This appears to be another case of "the law of unintended consequences" by government, where an attempt to deal with the abusers ends up harming everyone.

BTW: I know the difference between a right and a privilege. Thank you!
cd

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:32 pm

GrumpyOldVet wrote: I got my Rejection letter from the state of Texas last week. According to the Letter there is no longer a category for assembled Vehicles.

I started with a Chenowth Chassis with a tag on it with the Chassis Model Number and Serial Number on it. Of course it is made with a VW Swing arm rear end, and King pin front end.

According to the Letter I received What I was trying to title was made from several different vehicles and not made from one vehicle. It also did not classify as a rebodied vehicle, because I did not start with a NTHSA approved Chassis.
[snip]

So does that mean they will be canceling all the Cobra replicas too? I'm staying up in Washington! So many "conservative" states seem to be messing with custom vehicle owners and/or requiring regular vehicle inspections. When was the last time you heard of a vehicle accident caused by vehicle customization?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:15 pm

EVfun wrote:
So does that mean they will be canceling all the Cobra replicas too? I'm staying up in Washington! So many "conservative" states seem to be messing with custom vehicle owners and/or requiring regular vehicle inspections. When was the last time you heard of a vehicle accident caused by vehicle customization?

I do not know, I know someone building a Deluxe T-bucket from Speedway, when he got the Frame, it says not for Highway use on it, so now he is worried he will not be able to title it.

Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:10 am

Thanks for bringing that up GrumpyOldVet. There is a potential ally group!

Many, perhaps most, street rods do not have original frames under the bodies. That group seems to have some political pull, just look at how many states have street rod mentioned in their vehicle regulations with certain relaxing of the code for them.

I want to apologize for the "conservative" quip. So many states seem to be messing with custom vehicle owners and/or requiring regular vehicle inspections. Some states surprise me more than others, but a political quip about it wasn't appropriate here.

Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:25 pm

No way I will pay a tax 10 times what it was last year. Any FOOL knows that ain't right. And it ain't!!! Maybe I will rile some by refusing to pay this Oppressive Tax but I DON"T CARE!!! Enough said. I don't want trouble here on this site or anywhere else. I am challenging this asessment and I might just win. I will keep you all informed.