TheSamba.com :: View topic - Build Thread: ALH into Bluestar @ 15 degrees

Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:07 pm

I like to face challenges, and/or create them via my pig-headed obstinacy, so I hereby offer this humble thread as an exemplar of my my preferred oeuvre.

My super reliable WBX is now spewing oil out of its long-suffering rear main seal, so I need to do something...anything. I choose to do what I had in mind way back when I bought this amazing van in 2004, and install a TDI engine. I just this very evening bought a nice 200k 2001 Jetta with an ALH auto. The engine pulls really strongly, but the auto trans is dying gracelessly. My plan is to install this engine @ 50 degrees, and to mate it to an automatic 3 speed transaxle, replacing the 4spd manual in there currently. Yes, I'm a glutton for gluten-free trauma. Stay tuned for more reality-based drama.

I should mention that I recently bought a TIG/plasma set, so the idea is to modify my existing '82 diesel install setup as much as required.

Note: I have shifted my approach by 35 degrees

Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:27 pm

Pictures are worth a thousand words. Let the surgery begin...

Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:35 pm

This is all you get, and you'll like it

Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:50 pm

Just cut the front off the car and weld it to the back of the Van. it will be far less painful than anything we are about to witness.

Have fun. This sounds like a really cool project to me, certainly worthwhile when all is said and done.

Neil

Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:52 pm

I honestly did consider a transverse install...really, I did.

Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:22 pm

I already have a fully converted suby and I am still considering cutting the front off the donor and welding it on next week.

I'd love to have a subaru automatic transaxle with all the factory wiring intact including cruise control. That'd be fun.

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:40 am

Looking forward to watching this Zeit'

So, tell us more, what are your plans for gearing, oil pan, engine management?

Andrew-

Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:13 am

Since you asked so nicely...

My current plan is to go eTDI, with the throttle/kick-down managed by the VW pedal or an MB unit sitting above the trans or just inside the engine compartment. The oil pan will either be a bastardized graft between the ALH and stock diesel unit, or a custom welded abomination. The engine mounting arms will be custom made and attached with Audi mounts to my '82 bars. The intercooler will either be stock or a Saab 900 unit mounted in the pillar with a small cooling fan. The transaxle will be a standard 3 speed with a 3.27 R&P and an external cooler with thermo-controlled fan.

I'm hoping that the sales of the excellent running WBX, manual trans and remaining Jetta body/parts will help defray much of the costs associated with the ALH install. I still need to acquire the auto parts and a Kennedy 50 degree adapter/flex-plate. Still not sure what to do about the tach.

I reserve the right to change my mind at any point in this process, because I'm a capricious mofo

Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:26 am

I copied this for my tach http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/lt-24-petrol-eng...tml#527970

And I used VAGdashCAN to turn my IMMO off. I have a friend with a full version but looks like you can buy Chinese knock-off cables for $150 on ebay. No idea if they will work!

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:50 am

Thanks for that link. Still not sure whether I should mod the stock T3 cluster or go wild weasel and just graft in the Jetta setup. Pic swiped from AndyBees' ALH thread at Fred's Haus of TDI:

Though, if you're going this direction, why not just use the Jetta light switch?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:59 pm

Regardless of which direction you take on this project I am sure that I will thoroughly enjoy watching it evolve.

I know, you said you're a glutton for punishment and still, I'll try talking sense. The ALH is an excellent engine. In all honesty, it is my favorite of ALL. All the changes they made from the AHU were good improvements. That said, the AHU will make the same power at the same fuel efficiency and is perfectly capable of transaxle destroying torque if that's your goal. More importantly the AHU and is much easier to install @ 50° (I know, you're a glutton...). The only performance improvement to the ALH is the VNT turbo and that is easy enough to fit to the AHU. If going with a 50° install I would go with the AHU. If you are bound and determined to go with an ALH, then the 15° install is easier. No need for a custom oil pan, the turbo will drain right, etc, etc... If you are mating the engine to the vanagon automatic, then you already need to use an adapter plate. Even at 50°, the ALH still won't fit under the engine lid and the bay bus bed hinges make the raised bed fully functional with the benefit of added storage. You're already planning on custom fabricating the mounting system. The vanagon diesel oil pump will not work. You won't be using the DV starter with the automatic. None of the diesel vanagon hoses work with the ALH. Basically NONE of the diesel vanagon parts will work without modification. What incentive is left for going with the 50° install other than the enjoyment of pain?

Just for reference:

My swap from my 1.6TD to my 50° mTDI AHU in my '83 took 2 weekends with most of the time spent remaking the exhaust.

My swap from the WBX to my 15° mTDI ALH in my '91 took 6 weekends. A significant amount of that time was dealing with non-drivetrain items including installing stainless coolant pipes, doing the rear brakes, cleaning the varnish out of the fuel tank and resealing it, installing the H4s with relays. I literally spent less time on my entire swap than AndyBees spent on just dealing with the oil pan issue.

I won't even touch the eTDI vs. mTDI subject...

And again, I'm eager to see this project unfold regardless of which direction you take on it.

Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:51 am

Zeit-

Make sure you save the starter from the Jetta, it will bolt up to your auto trans with no adapter just by making one of the mounting holes slotted.

Andrew-

Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:33 am

Very interested in seeing this unfold.

Thank you for sharing.

Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:44 am

I'm so excited...and I just can't hide it...you're about to lose control and I think I like it!

Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:08 am

Quote: I like to face challenges, and/or create them via my pig-headed obstinacy
:lol:

Looking forward to seeing this projects steps...

Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:15 am

i am also looking forward to seeing this conversion unfold.
i think i can persuade mrs rubbachicken that this could be a good idea for her :D

Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:44 am

Andrew A. Libby wrote: Regardless of which direction you take on this project I am sure that I will thoroughly enjoy watching it evolve.

I know, you said you're a glutton for punishment and still, I'll try talking sense. The ALH is an excellent engine. In all honesty, it is my favorite of ALL. All the changes they made from the AHU were good improvements. That said, the AHU will make the same power at the same fuel efficiency and is perfectly capable of transaxle destroying torque if that's your goal. More importantly the AHU and is much easier to install @ 50° (I know, you're a glutton...). The only performance improvement to the ALH is the VNT turbo and that is easy enough to fit to the AHU. If going with a 50° install I would go with the AHU. If you are bound and determined to go with an ALH, then the 15° install is easier. No need for a custom oil pan, the turbo will drain right, etc, etc... If you are mating the engine to the vanagon automatic, then you already need to use an adapter plate. Even at 50°, the ALH still won't fit under the engine lid and the bay bus bed hinges make the raised bed fully functional with the benefit of added storage. You're already planning on custom fabricating the mounting system. The vanagon diesel oil pump will not work. You won't be using the DV starter with the automatic. None of the diesel vanagon hoses work with the ALH. Basically NONE of the diesel vanagon parts will work without modification. What incentive is left for going with the 50° install other than the enjoyment of pain?

Just for reference:

My swap from my 1.6TD to my 50° mTDI AHU in my '83 took 2 weekends with most of the time spent remaking the exhaust.

My swap from the WBX to my 15° mTDI ALH in my '91 took 6 weekends. A significant amount of that time was dealing with non-drivetrain items including installing stainless coolant pipes, doing the rear brakes, cleaning the varnish out of the fuel tank and resealing it, installing the H4s with relays. I literally spent less time on my entire swap than AndyBees spent on just dealing with the oil pan issue.

I won't even touch the eTDI vs. mTDI subject...

And again, I'm eager to see this project unfold regardless of which direction you take on it.

You'll get no argument from me on the AHU vs ALH or even eTDI vs mTDI. I wholeheartedly agree on all counts. It was really important for me to purchase a complete donor vehicle along with the engine, and earlier models don't often come available here in the PNW. When they do, they're mega-high mileage examples. Recently there was a 1Z Passat offered for sale with nearly 400k on the odo. This Jetta showed up here in Oly within my price range, so I engaged the warp drive. No going back now. My daughter is actually quite angry with me 'cause I'm going to destroy a perfectly nice car. She's 13 and already has a money jar set aside for her first vehicle.

I really like this engine, and even though it has just over 200k on the clock, they were all highway miles accrued during a 70mile per day commutes between Oly and Tacoma. I reviewed all the service records from day one, and nearly every repair was associated with the recall stuff that plagues the Puebla cars, but nothing at all to do with the engine, except for t-belt service.

I can be swayed wrt the angle of the dangle, but will have to examine the net protrusion between the two options. This is going to be my shop runner, so the "bed" probably won't be used for sleeping or whatever people do with them, so the protrusion into the passenger compartment will only be important for its limitations on what I can load into the space from the hatch. I assume the oil filter housing, dipstick and inj pump are the interference items.

This:

vs this:

May need to amend the thread title...thanks for the great input!

Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:27 am

A friend of mine took the time to swap from a AHU to a ALH. He did so many miles on that AHU you wouldn't believe it, but finally he got his hands on a ALH in mint condition so he took it. I don't know if he has any photos or how much time he put into the swap, but I do know that he is very satisfied with the new engine and the van is silent and very comfy.

I will make an ALH too if I get one before an AHU.

Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:00 am

The victim:

Not bad for a 200k engine which has never seen major service

Sheesh, what kind of idiot swaps from manual to auto?

How difficult is it to kill the EGR without throwing a code? Can this be done DIY along with defeating the immobilizer? I'm currently absorbing the TDI FAQ so perhaps I'll settle on this info all by myself.

Yes yes, mTDI is the way to go, but I'm trying to do this on a strict budget, and a pump build blows the budget, especially since the 3.27 R&P is such a $$$-suck. I enjoy wiring projects, so I'm actually looking forward to the e-challenge

Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:25 pm

That looks like 20° rather than 15°. At 15° the oil filter assembly appears to be vertical. @ 15° the high points on the eTDI are the EGR and the oil filler.

On my 15° mTDI I lifted the lid 3.5" but that is more than necessary and I didn't make any attempt to alter any of the components that I was using (oil filler cap, crank vent puck, etc). I could probably have gotten it down to 3" but that would have made the storage areas around the lid less effective and the use of the bay westy sofabed hinges harder. My mTDI also protrudes with the LDA on the injection pump, but that is not present on the eTDIs.

I have not done a 50° ALH but from the picture it looks like a smaller protrusion and that the major culprit is the oil filter housing cap and to a smaller extent the injection pump. Perhaps a lower profile cap could be used on the filter housing. Certainly a block-off plate and remote filter would be possible.