TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:51 am

Based on my own experience, I agree that parking over grass will accelerate rusting, and it seems (to me) to be worst in the spring months. I do park on grass for winter storage, with no ground cover tarp (as noted it kills the grass). It gets somewhat cold here in the winter, so the rusting slows.

Not a scientific experiment, but I once had to park a Jetta at the end of my driveway, such that the back half was over grass, and the front half was over dirt/gravel. When I pulled it out of there to get it back on the road, the half that was over the grass was fairly severely rusted, whereas the half over the gravel looked like it did when I parked it there. Maybe it was just coincidence, but it sure made an impression on me at the time, and right then I formed my own conclusion that that was not a good thing to be doing.

As rbemerson points out, there is always going to be moisture/condensation whenever you get temperature changes, the cars here are dripping water in the morning, even from underneath. But, I think there is more to it with the grass. Sure, there is moisture, but I have always theorized that photosynthesis has something to do with it as well. By-product is oxygen, which is one of the things required for rusting -- you need 1) an electrolyte (water, salty water even worse); and 2) oxygen.

Just my personal theory; I can be way out to lunch. But, when I do store a vehicle over grass in the winter (grass is in hibernation); I make sure to get it off of there as soon as spring comes and the grass starts growing again (photosynthesis). Keeps me busy moving vans twice a year. :lol:

RonC

Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:05 am

There's nothing wrong with a real drive on occasion, but "start it up, let it idle 'for a while', shut it down" is worse than doing nothing. The exhaust plumbing doesn't come up to full operating temperature, leaving condensation in places. Exhaust products dissolve in the condensation, creating various acids which attack the metal bits. The engine oil also picks up stuff it wouldn't see when running at normal road temps - also bad news. And none of this stirs up any of the rest of the systems. A drive around the block at least stirs everything up, but if the drive lasts only a few minutes, see above re: operating temperatures.

Bottom line: you're better off leaving the vehicle parked until it's time to use it again.

Solar battery trickle chargers need sunlight (in short supply in winter, thanks to clouds and shorter days) and need to be square to the noon sun for maximum output. Which is low in the winter sky (even in FL) - that makes the light path through the atmosphere longer and means less energy reaches the panel. Battery Tenders don't care about cloudy skies, low sun angles, etc. You can feel good about "going solar" or you can get the job done...

While the PO may have covered the air intake for the ventilation, etc., the engine area is still at risk. A friend in Wellington, FL had to have her Honda Accord's engine wiring harness replaced after some critters climbed up on the engine, while it was in her garage, and chewed on the wiring. :shock: If nothing else, take an occasional look at the engine to be sure nobody's in residence.

Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:07 am

foolery wrote: Ohh crap. Just realized the portable garage I found, http://www.harborfreight.com/10-ft-x-17-ft-portable-garage-69039.html, isn't tall enough to drive a Westy in/out. The opening is only 6.25 feet tall.

Anyone have any tall portable garages they know of?

Not sure if it'd give you quite enough clearance or not but one portable garage in my neighbourhood has been set up on cement blocks under the legs to gain enough clearance for a GMC Safari van (why you would bother putting that in a garage I don't know - probably worth less than the shelter). As the shelter is on a cement driveway it also gives the legs something to be anchored to. Even on the grass that could be handy to have a couple 100# of cement holding the shelter down instead of just relying on pegging it down.... Guess it would depend on how much more a larger shelter is vs the cost of blocks.

Another thing I've seen is a 1' 2x4" and plywood pony wall on the sides and across the back to elevate the shelter. Again, time and materials vs cost of larger shelter.

Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:17 am

RBEmerson wrote: Solar battery trickle chargers need sunlight (in short supply in winter, thanks to clouds and shorter days) and need to be square to the noon sun for maximum output. Which is low in the winter sky (even in FL) - that makes the light path through the atmosphere longer and means less energy reaches the panel. Battery Tenders don't care about cloudy skies, low sun angles, etc. You can feel good about "going solar" or you can get the job done...

While the PO may have covered the air intake for the ventilation, etc., the engine area is still at risk. A friend in Wellington, FL had to have her Honda Accord's engine wiring harness replaced after some critters climbed up on the engine, while it was in her garage, and chewed on the wiring. :shock: If nothing else, take an occasional look at the engine to be sure nobody's in residence.

Based on my own experience in my shady driveway during our cloudy, higher-latitude BC winters I'd say a small solar panel would be fine to keep a healthy battery with no load topped up, and would be good if you are parking away from a plug-in. It of course would not work if there was actually any drain on the battery though.

If you do go through the trouble of hooking up a battery tender and running an extension cord then plugin a sonic pest repeller too to keep the critters away. A trouble light (with a bare, incandecant 60 or 100w bulb) plugged in out there would also do wonders to keep the humidity and mold potential down. Lots of people do that in their boats and RVs over the winter.

GT

Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:30 am

Storing it on the grass is not preferred but it could be better than damp stagnate garage. I've stored cars/trucks for years outside over the winter and they do just fine. A dry garage is best but sometimes you have to go with what you've got. Driving it, even occasionally on salty roads is really bad. That is what you need to be concerned about. Nothing like a good salt spray bath and then letting it sit there to rust. Vehicles can sit just fine with out running for a few months. Put the battery(s) on a trickle charger to keep them up to charge either in or out of the vehicle.

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:04 pm

foolery wrote: I know it's not the best thing to do but there is nothing I can do about it. My van will be staying at my mother in laws place from late Nov till April when I pick it back up. In that time it will be parked over grass. She plans on driving the van from time to time, although chances are the same thing as last year will happen and it'll sit pretty much the whole time I'm gone..............................BTW she's a part owner and it's her turn to have it so I don't get to park it somewhere else. Not an option

Hmmmmmmm..........
So your Mother in law was nice and helped you purchase the Van you could not afford and instead of it being a loan....... It's joint ownership.
So.....
Because she owns half? Of the Van, she gets it during the Winter. She doesn't really want it nor does she use it, she just wants to have it........out of your possession and in hers.

To what point?
Does she know that simply sitting is about the worst thing you can do for a car? The body will rust, the exhaust will rust, the cylinders will rust, the battery will die and rodents and vermin will move in doing horrible damage to multiple items!

If she owns half, and really cares about the unit she would either use it, or be the bigger person and let you keep it full time with the option of using it as she desires ( within reason of course).

I've been in a position to help my children and while I strive not to "enable" I certainly do not lord it over them just to remind that that I "did" for them!
Let it go lady, be nice.

And the suggestion to buy her out? .............. Greatest idea EVER!

Parking on grass or dirt? Really a bad idea, moisture is always venting out of the ground......it never stops really. That is why "barn finds" aren't all that they are cracked up to be. Old barns often have dirt floors.....dirt floors vent moisture.......

Dave

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:27 pm

snowsyncro wrote: Based on my own experience, I agree that parking over grass will accelerate rusting, and it seems (to me) to be worst in the spring months. I do park on grass for winter storage, with no ground cover tarp (as noted it kills the grass). It gets somewhat cold here in the winter, so the rusting slows.

As rbemerson points out, there is always going to be moisture/condensation whenever you get temperature changes, the cars here are dripping water in the morning, even from underneath. But, I think there is more to it with the grass. Sure, there is moisture, but I have always theorized that photosynthesis has something to do with it as well. By-product is oxygen, which is one of the things required for rusting -- you need 1) an electrolyte (water, salty water even worse); and 2) oxygen.

Just my personal theory; I can be way out to lunch. But, when I do store a vehicle over grass in the winter (grass is in hibernation); I make sure to get it off of there as soon as spring comes and the grass starts growing again (photosynthesis). Keeps me busy moving vans twice a year. :lol:

RonC

Yes SnowSyncro! You are not out to lunch! In fact if I ever meet you lunch is on me!

It is called evapotranspiration...the grass is wicking moisture right from the ground and releasing it into the atmosphere.

That is one reason why the lawn is cooler than the driveway in the summer.

We usually rule out purchasing anything that's been parked on grass and sat for a long time here in Maine.

And oh yeah, I grow grass for a living....the kind you play golf on. 8)

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:36 pm

Volks, this is Florida, Floridians camp in the winter and walk around coatless. If I were going to be worried about the van in the Florida winter it would be a wee bit about sun exposure but even that is reduced. Driving it around shopping and the odd time on the highway (take the long way around) should be enough. I'd be more worried about the salty air than anything.

Does your mother in law camp? Encourage her to do so and if she doesn't like it then she might not want it around. Why not plan a winter camping trip yourself as a get away. Camping in Florida in the winter is GREAT. Wish I could afford it.

Oh and realize that Florida grass is not anything like our grass :lol: I stand by my peppermint oil in various locations throughout the van and engine compartment.

Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:14 pm

djkeev wrote:
Hmmmmmmm..........
So your Mother in law was nice and helped you purchase the Van you could not afford and instead of it being a loan....... It's joint ownership.
So.....
Because she owns half? Of the Van, she gets it during the Winter. She doesn't really want it nor does she use it, she just wants to have it........out of your possession and in hers.

Dave

That's not how this whole thing started at all. She has always wanted a camper van and had dreams of using one with her boyfriend to travel around Florida. When the the chance to own a clean Westy came around we worked something out that we were both happy with, and at the time we both intended to use it often. She still has plans for using it this winter, I just don't see it happening. Unfortunately she's the kind of person that means well, but doesn't always do what she plans on doing.

Everything is fine with our situation, it's just I worry, probably too much, about the van.

Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:36 pm

I agree with both of the comments about a solar trickle charger. Solar has gotten so cheap nowadays, and you would definitely get a good charge down in Florida.