TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:28 am

I am brand new to the VW family. I bought a 71 Super Beetle for my daughter to drive back and forth to school. I figured it would be easy enough for me to keep it on the road...until it threw a rod! I swapped out the engine and now having an issue getting the car to go into gear. All she wants to do is grind when I try to put it in gear. The shifter works fine if the ignition is in the off position. I am not sure if I have missed something electrical or what. I do know that the vacuum hose is connected to the intake manifold, but that is the only thing that I am sure of. If someone could point me in a direction that I could find some sort of wiring diagram to make sure that I have the electrical connections properly connected, I would appreciate it very much.

Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:01 am

I assume u swapped engine. Upper left where the vac hose attaches to the control solenoid, there are 2 wires, 1 for 12v to sol and other goes to shifter- if u slip the rubber boot up there area contacts in the center sect and if small pressure is given to shifter the contacts close and ground is made causing sol valve to open, eng vac operates the manual clutch on trans allowing shifting.When u changed eng did u swap carb to 'new' eng?? U need it as it has a vac port needed to also connect to the sol valve.U can test sol v by jumping 12v across valve same as u would test a lite bulb, should click. U did swap oil pumps if eng came from a 4-speed,right? The wire up at shifter does break in time due to the flexing so if all other checks ok check it.

Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:00 pm

Check the fuse as well, holder should be in the engine area, behind the air filter, though after this long who knows.

Sounds like you just have a simple electrical issue. The wire up to the shifter is often brittle by this time and might need to be replaced.

www.VWAR.org is your new best VW friend, gathering place for autosticks.

Bentley manual for your year has autostick wiring diagrams, also go to the "Technical" tab on the upper right of this page and there are pull down wiring diagrams for your car on there...I think the ones marked "additional" have the autostick wiring guides included.

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:07 pm

From my Haynes manual (yours would be the later version I believe):

Is there any way you could post a picture of your engine bay, with special attention to the vacuum hoses and wires running to your control valve? A grinding issue to me USUALLY indicates an out of adjustment clutch servo arm or worn out rubber diaphragm inside the servo, but not always-- and if everything was working OK before the engine swap it makes more sense to me that some vacuum lines were not connected back up properly. Any other weird noises when you fire up the engine besides the gear grinding (like banging or anything)?

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:16 pm

Hello im doing a 1972 automatic bug for my son now and went thru what you are going thru now if you want to email me I can walk you thru it.

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:23 pm

Also for any autostick owners this manual may prove to be immensely valuable (credit to vwar where I got it):

http://www.type-14.com/Fiche/H%20-%20Transmission%...0Shift.pdf

Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:50 pm

First of all

Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:10 pm

First of all, I want to thank everyone for the response. It has truly helped! I have yet to get it figured out. I did put the original oil pump on the newer block (learned a valuable lesson on the difference of a flat cam and a dish cam and now I have a spare pump for a dished cam). I have checked the vacuum hoses and they all seem to be connected. I did use the original carb and the hose from the solenoid to the carb is connected. The larger hose from the intake manifold to the solenoid is also connected. The other two hoses, from solenoid to vacuum reservoir and from solenoid to servo were never touched and they also appear to be connected. As far as wiring goes, I took the shifter apart and cleaned the contact. I also checked the other end of the shifter wire which is connected to the solenoid. On the other terminal the wire from the solenoid runs to the positive side of the coil. The only fuse that I know of is in the fuse box under the left side of the dash. I am still stumped and if any one can through out any other ideas, I am all ears (more or less eyes)!

Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:56 pm

I doubt your problem is electrical- BUT there should be an inline fuse on the wire that goes from the coil to the control valve. If there isn't, please install one.
I wanted to wait until I got a little more info or saw pictures of your engine bay to be sure, but anytime I hear about an autostick grinding gears badly enough to affect gear engagement, my first guess is the clutch servo is bad. Either the arm that controls the clutch is out of adjustment or (more likely) the rubber diaphragm inside the housing is split or worn and causing vacuum that is supposed to control the clutch arm to leak.
This sucker is a pain to get to and even more unruly to adjust, but it really needs to be checked.

Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:03 pm

Sorry, its been dark when I get home at night, but I will certainly try to get some pics Thursday. I must admit...I liked it being an electrical problem, but I will certainly look into the clutch servo. Let me state that the car will NOT go into gear at all...it just grinds! And what size (amp) fuse should I install.

Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:08 pm

Billy Z wrote: Sorry, its been dark when I get home at night, but I will certainly try to get some pics Thursday. I must admit...I liked it being an electrical problem, but I will certainly look into the clutch servo. Let me state that the car will NOT go into gear at all...it just grinds! And what size (amp) fuse should I install.

Should be an 8 amp fuse.

There is one other slight possibility I just thought of- does the wire from your shifter route to a switch on the transmission housing before going back to the control valve? It is supposed to route through a neutral safety switch that a) prevents the car from being started in any gear other than neutral and b) tells the control valve-- and by extension the servo-- when to operate the clutch as you are switching gears through neutral. (Item B in the diagram I posted earlier in this thread.)

If that switch is bad or if the wires don't run to it properly it is possible that the clutch won't "know" to disengage when shifting through neutral--basically it will think the transmission is in gear all the time. There are 3 wires to that switch- one from your ignition switch, one from the starter, and one spliced together from the shifter and the control valve (take a look at that diagram to see the wire routing.) It is possible that for some reason the wires were disconnected from that switch when the engine was being swapped, and whoever did it forgot to reconnect the shifter/ control valve wire but DID reconnect the ignition switch and starter wires. That would allow the car to be started, but you would not be able to shift. This is really highly unlikely though.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:58 pm

Okay guys new problem, Took the bug to a shop that has a guy that works on VW's. He says, after replacing the vale solenoid, that the heads apparently have been shaved too much causing an improper vacuum issue which does not allow the transmission to engage. Can anyone tell me if this is possible. I am almost at the selling point! When I got the car back, I can't get it to even idle anymore and it backfires like crazy through the carb...I am so lost at this point!

Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:15 pm

Billy Z wrote: Okay guys new problem, Took the bug to a shop that has a guy that works on VW's. He says, after replacing the vale solenoid, that the heads apparently have been shaved too much causing an improper vacuum issue which does not allow the transmission to engage. Can anyone tell me if this is possible. I am almost at the selling point! When I got the car back, I can't get it to even idle anymore and it backfires like crazy through the carb...I am so lost at this point!

He's correct--sort of.
A badly running engine can indeed cause problems with the autostick transmission due to improper vacuum. However, I have never heard of badly shaved heads causing this problem. I have had my autostick for 40+ years now and you REALLY have to have a badly running engine to affect the vacuum level enough to keep the autostick from working. It may be jerky or grindy with a badly tuned engine but it usually still works. A much more logical explanation is that the clutch servo canister is bad (which was mentioned earlier.) The diaphragm inside it can rupture and then you lose vacuum for the clutch arm to engage the clutch. Tough to get to but easy fix.
AS far as the backfiring, if it is indeed backfiring through the carburetor it usually means you are running way too lean- possibly a clogged idle jet or a tight valve.

Some questions:

a) Did you ever get the initial problem you posted about sorted out with the autostick? In your original post you said you swapped the engine and then the transmission started having trouble engaging gears- did it work OK before the engine swap?
b) How was the engine running before you took it to this mechanic?
c) What else did he work on (besides the autostick?) Anything directly engine related?

Bad timing could really affect everything, as could vacuum leaks, etc. There could be a hole in the reserve vacuum tank located under your left rear fender, if this is leaking vacuum it could help explain a lot.

We REALLY could use some pictures to help us out- if you could take 5 or 6 photos of the engine bay, vacuum hoses, vacuum tank, control valve solenoid, distributor, carb, basiclly everything, it would really help. I cannot stress this enough- it might lead to nothing but looking at photos has helped us sort out issues numerous times (for example a while back a guy posted about his bug just not being able to start, he had tried everything--finally he posted a photo and it turned out his fuel filter was backwards! Another had the coil wire on the wrong side of the coil.)

Double check your valve settings (should be .006) Remove your idle jet and try to blow it out with compressed air- it is the jet that goes into the carb sort of diagonally on the right side below the choke.

As a fellow autostick owner please don't give up on it yet!! We will do our best to get it figured out.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:34 pm

a vacuum leak could cause all three symptoms: clutch not disengaging, poor idle and backfiring.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:42 pm

mouser98 wrote: a vacuum leak could cause all three symptoms: clutch not disengaging, poor idle and backfiring.

Sorry for my War and Peace post earlier- but basically I agree with this-- makes the most sense without overthinking it. Crack in any of the vacuum lines (but particularly the ones from the manifold or vacuum tank to control valve), or hole in the vacuum tank, could be difficult to spot.

I still say photos help immensely.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:30 pm

The bug ran like a champ before it threw a rod...as well as shifted good. I will get pictures, just have a bad habit of reading the replies at night...but will get picks. When I put the new engine in, the engine would idle, not great but would idle. Was planning on getting the idle dealt with once I could drive it around the block, to be able to test drive. The transmission does not grind, it just will not shift. As far as the mechanic goes, I had on my list for him to deal with the idle, but he was only willing to replace the heads before he would proceed with anything else. Don't sweat the novel...I appreciate it, the more you share, the more I learn. I will post picks tomorrow (during daylight). I am also willing to take advice on the best ways to check for vacuum leaks.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:46 pm

Mouser98, where is Lugoff SC?

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:49 pm

its about 20 miles east of Columbia on I-20

here is a link for your vacuum hoses

https://www.belmetric.com/rh12w-wire-reinforced-p-910.html?cPath=14_140

they ship fast.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:04 pm

To look for potential vacuum leaks the most common method is by spraying carb cleaner around suspect areas-- the vacuum hoses (esp. those going to/from the control valve), around the carburetor and intake manifold down to the heads etc. and see if your RPMs increase when you spray somewhere. When a vacuum leak occurs it causes air to leak into the system and leans out your mixture. If you spray around a leak, the carb cleaner will cause the mixture to ignite better, raising your RPMs. Just be careful, carb cleaner is potentially flammable and can catch fire- do it sparingly and nowhere around spark. Just use good common sense.
My three #1 suspect areas on your car would be: the base of the carburetor, where the intake meets the cylinder heads, and the port on the intake manifold where the larger vacuum hose connects that goes to the control valve. (These areas are closer to the mixture path in the system.) As far as the vacuum hoses go you could simply remove them all and check for cracks too.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:31 pm

sb001 wrote: To look for potential vacuum leaks the most common method is by spraying carb cleaner around suspect areas-- the vacuum hoses (esp. those going to/from the control valve), around the carburetor and intake manifold down to the heads etc. and see if your RPMs increase when you spray somewhere. When a vacuum leak occurs it causes air to leak into the system and leans out your mixture. If you spray around a leak, the carb cleaner will cause the mixture to ignite better, raising your RPMs. Just be careful, carb cleaner is potentially flammable and can catch fire- do it sparingly and nowhere around spark. Just use good common sense.
My three #1 suspect areas on your car would be: the base of the carburetor, where the intake meets the cylinder heads, and the port on the intake manifold where the larger vacuum hose connects that goes to the control valve. (These areas are closer to the mixture path in the system.) As far as the vacuum hoses go you could simply remove them all and check for cracks too.

Sometimes the idle just smooth's out and does not increase in RPM's