Doug C |
Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:41 pm |
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I hope someone here can help me figure out what the difference is in Nason's Urethane primers..
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common...alRule.pdf
According to the page in the link, in the undercoats section there is an "Epoxy Primer-Sealer HS / 491-35" and a "2K Urethane (SelectPrime) / 421-19" . My understanding is that the epoxy is the way to go.. BUT ..
The confusion comes when looking at the topcoats section. There is a "Ful-thane 2K Urethane" and a "Ful-thane HS".
If I choose the Ful-thane 2K urethane topcoat, the corresponding 2K Urethane primer is not an epoxy. (assuming they're made to be used together).
If I choose the Epoxy Primer-sealer HS , the corresponding "HS" topcoat will not be right (no reducer options, only and activator).
The first topcoat (Ful-thane 2K Urethane) looks like the one I'd want because, like similar urethanes it offers a choice of three reducer speeds. The Ful-thane HS does not (only one accelerator instead).
Anyone with experience using this line? |
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CanadianBug |
Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:52 pm |
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Been a while since I've used Nason, but the link you posted shows the Ful-thane to be a fleet system. Is this what you're looking for, or are you not sure what you need?
My advice is to ask the paint guy wherever you're buying the primer and paint.
Mike |
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Doug C |
Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:54 pm |
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CanadianBug wrote: .. but the link you posted shows the Ful-thane to be a fleet system. Is this what you're looking for, or are you not sure what you need?
Mike
Right above where it list Fleet-thane/Ful-thane it list "Ful-thane 2k Urethane".. but I don;t know exactly what the differences are.
I was basically just trying to stay in the same line of paint beginning to end by using Nason's primer. But I'm on a super tight budget and after calling a couple of local places for prices, the primer & activator is going to be about $230 plus tax (and gas to go get it, and put up with the typical Oreilly employee non-since). I though with Nason being a lower level paint and being able to pick it up at autoparts stores, the prices would be similar to Eastwood for some reason.. wrong. I think I may just save myself the $120 and get the Eastwood equivalent. Then do the Nason SS on top. |
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Cmontoya9 |
Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:17 pm |
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I am a total rookie painter but all I've used is Nason. I think its great for the price, I haven't painted any show cars with it though. I would say that the Epoxy should work fine with the ful-thane top coat. I personally haven't used the epoxy but I get mine from the local paint and body supply guy who told me that all the Nason line works together. I have used the 2k urathane and it worked well for me. So far I have painted my dads s-10 Blazer, my boat, a motorcycle fender, several art sculptures and numerous other small projects all with Nason and have been happy with the results every time. If you can, try to get in touch with a paint supply store. my local O'Reilly's sells Nason too, but its almost twice the price than the paint supply store. Also, When you get clear, go for the "Select Clear", its in the green can. Its great when you cut and buff it with a high quality polish. and at about $100 a gallon, cant go wrong. I have never used the Eastwood stuff, but I haven't heard anything good about it, but then again, hadn't heard too much good about Nason before I tried it either. :roll: Good luck. |
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Doug C |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:22 pm |
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Wait, So is the 421-19 that I listed (2K urethane select prime) Nason's high build primer? I don't see that in the description but 2K primers are usually high build, right? If so I could spray that over top of an old finish (after scuffing real good), then block sand.. correct? |
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Cmontoya9 |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:04 pm |
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Yes, I believe you could. Are you doing any body work? Filler and such? |
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Mike Fisher |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:16 pm |
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You haven't shown us any pictures of your "old finish" so how could we know? You can usually scuff and primer unless it is flaking or rusty. Follow Cmontoya9's advice and put a good Nason primer/base coat/clear coat/buffed paint job on it you can be proud of. Will you be embarrassed by your rookie cheap single stage paint job? :idea: |
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Doug C |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:09 pm |
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Mike Fisher wrote: You haven't shown us any pictures of your "old finish" so how could we know? You can usually scuff and primer unless it is flaking or rusty. Follow Cmontoya9's advice and put a good Nason primer/base coat/clear coat/buffed paint job on it you can be proud of. Will you be embarrassed by your rookie cheap single stage paint job? :idea:
Mike - why the condescending tone ? Honestly I don't care what YOU think or what your opinion is regarding "budget minded" Single Stage paint jobs. Don't help me if you don't want to but no need to insult me either. I'd be embarrassed to take advice from you. :fist: |
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Cmontoya9 |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:43 pm |
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Easy now fellas, Doug tell us what your old finish looks like. Is it the factory paint? do you need to do any body work on the car? will you be using filler? Can you post up some some pics so we can check it out? |
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Doug C |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:50 pm |
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Here's a shot I posted in another thread, it gives a basic overview of what the paint is like on the front 3/4 of the car :
Here's a shot of the rear of the car, both rear quarters are in bare metal:
So, I thought I'd pick up a quart of the epoxy primer to coat the rear quarters and spot shoot a few areas on the front that need it first.. then purchase a gallon of 2K Urethane primer to cover the entire car. But that assumes 2K Urethane primer is "high build" enough. My cheap choices are Nason and Eastwood and neither of them play up the "high build" qualities in their product descriptions.. where as other products do like 'Feather Fill" or 'Slick Sand', etc.
I am trying to eliminate as much putty/filler as possible but I'm unsure how close I'll come to getting it where the high build will suffice. The front 3/4 of the car is pretty straight really. |
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Doug C |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:01 pm |
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This pic shows the front area better and it's general paint situation. I think it's a respray to it's original (ugly as hell) gold color. It obviously sit in the sun for years and years and the clear coat flecked off in patches. You can see that on the hood area of this picture. btw, this picture is obviously before I removed the poorly attached rear quarter AND before I sanded the entire car down with 220 grit in the front (for the heck of it).
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Cmontoya9 |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:45 pm |
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I think you have the right idea there with the epoxy then 2k, but how "high build" are you looking for? A 2k urathane primer is different from feather fill and is not really meant to "build". Feather fill is a polyester primer, basically a sprayable body filler. Poly's are for high build but I do not have any experience with them YET. I will be using Feather fill on my project and I hear its like spraying mud. I am hoping that HF has a cheap spray gun with a huge tip to spray it with. If you don't need too much body filler and things are straight enough for your liking, the 2k should be fine. |
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Doug C |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:11 pm |
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Cmontoya9 wrote: ... A 2k urathane primer is ..not really meant to "build". Feather fill is a polyester primer, basically a sprayable body filler. Poly's are for high build ...
Ok that's what I didn't understand, thanks. So, the next question(s) - will high build POLY primers work with the Acrylic Urethane Single Stage paints? Do they share the same reducer types? I hope to seals the high build with itself, thinned if possible.
I will mostly need high build at the back of the car. I found lots of lumps under all the bondo on the rear-most panel. I will be hammering it straight as possible, and I feel like I can get most of it but there's a lot of work and I'm a novice at it. Lets say I skip the sprayable high build.. what's a good cost friendly filler I should look into? |
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Doug C |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:12 pm |
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BTW - what exactly does the term "Primer Surfacer" mean? It's what had me thinking the 2K Urethane primer was a high build.
If I skip the sprayable high build and go with a putty.. I could just skip the 2K Urethane primer all together because the Epoxy Primer is said to be designed to cover bare metal as well as existing finishes. So I think the epoxy would be the better choice for the entire car. |
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Cmontoya9 |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:20 pm |
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Ok, now I see what you were thinking. DO NOT skip the filler stage, even a high build primer on its own is not going to fill in all the dips and imperfections after you are done with the hammers and dollies. Obviously, you are not going to want a thick heavy coat of filler but there is nothing wrong with a thin light coat to smooth everything out. You can cover your filler with the epoxy primer if you want. The 2k primer is for leveling more than anything. After you have done your final sanding on your 2k and are happy with it, you will lay down a sealer before your topcoat. The 422-23 Ful-Seal Select is the one I have used many times and it works great. If you stick with Nason everything, it should all go smooth. As far as filler goes, Evercoat makes many different types. My favorite is called Rage Gold. Its about $40 a gallon or so, but worth every penny. Lays down smooth, easy to sand. You don't need to spring for the most expensive filler really, as long as you prep right. Once again, I am no pro, this is all a hobby for me and I am still learning as I go. If you feel like you need a second opinion on anything I have said, by all means get one. But everything I have said is what I have tried after talking to pros and suppliers and have success with. The most important thing to remember is to take your time and prep everything right. |
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Doug C |
Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:26 pm |
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Cmontoya9 wrote: ... Once again, I am no pro, this is all a hobby for me and I am still learning as I go. If you feel like you need a second opinion on anything I have said, by all means get one. But everything I have said is what I have tried after talking to pros and suppliers and have success with. The most important thing to remember is to take your time and prep everything right.
I understand where you're coming from and you've been a big help and it is certainly appreciated, thanks. |
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Mike Fisher |
Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:59 pm |
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Might as well get the windows out of it and strip it all down to bare metal now since you won't want to do it again! You can Rust-Prep etc the bare metal and keep a tarp over it. I will use up to 1/4" of filler and not worry about getting it perfected to 1/8". |
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buguy |
Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:32 pm |
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I would use Slick Sand Poly as your high build (It can spray 6mils per coat!) Really locks in your body work, tons of material to work with, and is solid as hell. Bout $100 a gallon if I remember right. Sand it down to 120-220 grit, then spray some regular 2k, wet sand to 400-600 grit depending on color, and be done with it. A good sanded catylized primer is plenty, no real need for sealer.
Also Rage Gold is very good, but 3M filler is better in my oppinion, cheaper too I believe.
I think Southern Polyurethane is a great product as well. Might look at their epoxy and 2k primers. They also have a great overall clear too if you go that direction. Prices are great to boot.
And I will wholeheartedly disagree with the crap single stage comment. In fact I feel single stage looks more "right" on old bugs (or any old car) than base/clear. Nason Ful-thane single stage is about $200 for a gallon kit and polishes up real nice. |
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buguy |
Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:05 pm |
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Just thought I would add that I sprayed some of the Nason SelectPrime over sanded Slick Sand today and it went on without a hitch. The Nason Primer doesnt lay down as nice as the PPG K38 I usually use, but it was also less than half the cost. Good value if you ask me. I think it was $119 for the gallon kit.
Also want to add for the person talking about Feather Fill. In my oppinion, it doesnt fill as well as slick sand. I use the Featherfill only where I need it to be black, because you cant get Slick Sand or Superbuild in black. Superbuild (also from Evercoat) is said to have the highest build, but I have found it gets a candy shell on it that until you sand through it, the shell is hard to sand. Once you get through that shell it sands nice, but I think Slick Sand is the best of the bunch. You do need a huge tip to spray it though. I have a Poly gun with a 2.5mm tip. I shot it with a 1.9mm tip once but I had to thin it 10% and thats simply undoing the point of spraying it in the first place.
Also with Slick Sand, if you sand it with 120 and have enogugh material left on it, you can go to 220, then 400 grit wet and paint right over it. We have done it a few times with no problem at all. But it really is a lot less work to sand the Slick Sand with 120 grit, then spray your 2k primer on, then wetsand that with 400-600 and be done. |
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windavit |
Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:53 am |
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Doug; mine finished in nason SSU ;
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Daves-Classic-Carriageworks/199921090132833?ref=hl |
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