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Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:32 pm

ARE DUNE BUGGIES JUNK?
Many of the street driven (not just used off road) Dune Buggies I've seen out there are in very poor condition, both mechanically and cosmetically. They were built by someone with little or no automotive experience, some fourty years ago. They are lacking in function, design, proper fabrication of parts, cosmetic and ergonomic features that are built into todays automobiles that make driving much easier, safer and enjoyable. The paint, interior, suspension, drivetrain, engine and lack of general maintainence on these Dune Buggies leave much to be desired. You don't want to buy someone's problems.
This topic was brought up to me by the person I sold a Manx to. He said: "All the Dune Buggies I looked at were junk, this is the first nice one I've seen". I wasn't sure at the time if it was a localized or time frame opinion, he's from out of state, but, it stuck in my mind.
Over the months, I kept looking at Buggies and wondering how they were built. I saw things done I would never do, let alone sell a buggy that way. I have learned from my automotive career, classic vehicle restorations and auto racing why things are done a certain way. The more comfortable, easier and safer your buggy is to drive, the better for everyone.

Here is a list of only a few things you want to avoid when looking for a Dune Buggy:
Side view mirrors on the fenders: Not only do they look silly there, they don't let you see enough of what's behind you. You viewing area is dimished the farther away the mirror is.
Seats that do not adjust foward and back: You will want to reach and not be too close to all the pedals so you can stop, clutch and accelerate easily. Your safety is at stake.
Speedometers that are too far left, not in the center of the dash: When driving, if you have to lower your hands, turn the wheel or lean over the wheel to see the speedometer, your eyes are off the road too long. You will need to know how fast your going, if any engine warning lights are on, if your high beams are on and how much fuel you have left, all with just a glance.
Horn buttons not in the center of the steering wheel: When you have to blow the horn, you want to do it quickly without having to search for it. Again, for your safety and others.
Wiring that is not the proper gauge, nor color-coded: Rarely do I see it properly and neatly secured. If you see wiring that hangs loose and unorganized it could get caught on something and cause electrical problems, stay clear. It is a must to check the operation of all lights, turn signals and brake lights when considering a purchase. You will be surprised how many fail this. Electrical diagnosis is not cheap or quickly repaired.
Fuel gauge not working or accurate: Many buggies have problems here because of mismatched parts, lack of calibration or the fact you have to remove the windshield, headlamps, dash or gauges and the hood, just to replace the sending unit in the tank. Not an easy job.
Working wipers: Even if you know its not going to rain, you might need them. Ever have to drive through a large puddle? Went by a sprinkler that was on? Followed a vehicle or boat leaking water? P.S. Boat is on trailer of course!
Suspension not adjusted: When the rear tires are sticking out at the top and the front suspension arms are angled down as they go back, the suspension is topped out. The Buggy's suspension will not travel upward any further. Any upward movement caused by a roadway mound or crest can cause the tires to leave the road suface. This is very unsafe, especially in a turn. VW Beetles are heavier than Dune Buggies, That is why the suspension has to be adjusted. Don't let them tell you they want it that way for off road use, it sits off the road higher. That's what bigger tires are for and off roaders want there tires in contact with the ground as much as possible!
Crooked tail lights and turn signals: Maybe a pet peave of mine, but, it shows me someone didn't take the time to do it right. I wonder what else was thrown together?
The Buggy's appearance: Get good pictures of everything, top, sides, front, back, inside, underneath, looking forward, looking backward, wiring, suspension, engine, transaxle and more. I mean everything. Then compare! Beware of advertisements with only a few pictures.

ARE DUNE BUGGIES JUNK?
I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON WHICH ONE YOUR LOOKING AT!

Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:16 pm

You have to take into account that buggies were designed for the basic Joe to build at home in their spare time. Most people that built them had limited mechanical abilities or aptitudes. I think the same applies today, maybe even more. Dune buggies aren't junk, they are built that way. Although I have seen a few bodies that were prety poorly built.

brad

Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:38 pm

Quote: You have to take into account that buggies were designed for the basic Joe to build at home in their spare time. Most people that built them had limited mechanical abilities or aptitudes. I think the same applies today, maybe even more. Dune buggies aren't junk, they are built that way. Although I have seen a few bodies that were prety poorly built.

Brad, Your right, but I feel it's time to bring them into the current day. They need redone and updated. After all, they are the most fun you can have on wheels. Two or four!

Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:00 pm

Milo,

If you look at the starting point of the cars of most of the folks posting on this site, you will see many examples of cars that were junk when the owners started on them. In fact, "yard art", "planter box", "scrap", and "compost bin" might be more applicable terms. I would have categorized mine as a "well organized pile of parts that happened to run". Or, "junk". Its a process.

Some folks never make it all the way to the end, they pass the car off to another, etc. It happens. Some get fixed up, some don't. Same appllies to Hondas and Fords.

So many folks who buy these cars are not as blessed as others with time, money, space, and skills. Their cars will represent how much of each of these qualities and resources they have access to, at a given point in time.

You seem to be saying that most of these cars should not be on the road. While you may be right on some level, I should point out that if that way of thinking permeated every state DMV in the country, we would only be left with pictures of ourselves in dunebuggies to remind ourselves of the fun we used to have. Emphasis on the past tense.

Not sure if you posted just to rant, or to tell us most of our cars are crap, or what. I hope it is the former.

Best way to take at least one piece of "junk" off the street is to take it into your garage and don't let it out until it meets your standards. Please share some pictures of one of your builds, it might help everyone here see what you like in a buggy.

Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:12 pm

slalombuggy wrote: You have to take into account that buggies were designed for the basic Joe to build at home in their spare time. Most people that built them had limited mechanical abilities or aptitudes. I think the same applies today, maybe even more. Dune buggies aren't junk, they are built that way. Although I have seen a few bodies that were prety poorly built.

brad
Right on! Plus, I think wipers and fuel gauges are over rated.

Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:54 pm

If someone isn't able to do the majority of the required maintenance and is unwilling to even read a repair manual to learn how, then a dune buggy is usually an unfortunate choice.

Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:11 am

I agree a lot of buggys are junk, but in this day and time we have all kinds of places to get our parts, when my dad built mine 30 years ago he didnt have the access to the internet. Since we do we have the internet its a lot easier to take JUNK and make it better than new. You just have to have the desire to finish what you started.

I look back on when i Started on mine(fall of 2011) and ask the same question. and i would do it all over again. They are a ton of fun.

Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:57 am

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The Buggy I love to drive! [/img]

Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:04 am

So the guy that built mine with compression fittings on the brake lines was an idiot?

Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:09 am

HillBuggy wrote: So the guy that built mine with compression fittings on the brake lines was an idiot?

No, I'm sure he didn't know any better!

Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:26 am

The whole intention of a dune buggy was to get rid of the amenities, get in the open air, off the beaten path, down to the beach. If you add too much crap they become heavy and something you wouldn't dare take in a mud hole.

There is a whole lot of junk out there, but i can say i probably had more fun as a kid at the river with my extended family and a fleet of old ugly pan buggys that constantly broke down then i do now with my 300hp 900lb mid travel rail.

You can drop 20k easily in a nice buggy, most in the hobby can't do that. Everyones skills are different (we are not created equal, that is the biggest notion of crap) but it would be nice if everyone could at least have some pride!

Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:51 am

Ive seen alot of junk in most vws.

What i notice most on dune buggies is terrible taste why people make something that is so simple very tacky is beyond me. People wanna add to much shit to buggies if you ask me they think they need every doodad a modern car has

Lastly please never use aluminum diamond plate anywhere especially on your dash it looks like crap unless its a tool box in a pickup truck

Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:02 am

Don't forget, I'm talking about street buggies!
An off road only machine is under different rules, they must perform in the dirt, and not too much more.

Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:31 am

vw7266 wrote: Ive seen alot of junk in most vws.

What i notice most on dune buggies is terrible taste why people make something that is so simple very tacky is beyond me. People wanna add to much shit to buggies if you ask me they think they need every doodad a modern car has

Lastly please never use aluminum diamond plate anywhere especially on your dash it looks like crap unless its a tool box in a pickup truck

Let me see...

Zebra striped upholstery...
Roll cages welded out of water pipe...
Big painted on flowers...
Wheels and tires to big (or to small)...
Wiring done by "rat worx"...
Body lifts when not necessary...
Seats to big, or to hard (fiberglass shells or poly)..
Steering wheels that don't match rest of car....
Rear view mirrors in all the wrong places...
86 holes with no useful purposes...
Park brake removed because it was not needed (or just ugly)...
14 tail lights added because other(s) did not work and just add new to fix...
11 different bolt sizes used to hold body on...
Cutting doors into body

Oh well...

Dale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:52 am

Everybody has different opinions and ideals. My Dunebuggy is street legal and street driven. It also is drag raced at the track.

I DO NOT have any side view mirrors. My Buggy does not have a top and I am not that lazy that I can't turn my head and look.

I DO NOT ever look at my speedo. I've driven VW's 35 years and I know how fast I'm going by what gear I'm in.

My seats are not adjustable. I am the only person that drives it so there is no need to move it.

I DO NOT have a fuel gauge. Before I leave I just use a wooden dowel rod and dip the tank like every Model "T" did 100 years ago. I know how far I can go on a tank of gas. I've only run out of gas one time in 22 years of driving my Buggy.

I DO NOT have wipers on my Buggy. When it rains I don't drive. Water gets on both sides of the windshield and having wipers on only one side does no good. I can raise my head and look over the top in an emergency.

95% of the time I do not use my turn signals. I just stick my arm out and use hand signals and it's still legal to do.

Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:57 am

Don't forget:

Mismatched wheels
Missing lug nuts/bolts
2x4 bumpers
Fuse panel dangling by the wiring harness
Garden gate hinge used for gas pedal hinge
Seats mounted cockeyed
Oversized fuel line with hose clamps cranked WAY to tight to "make it okay"

Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:05 am

Quote: I DO NOT ever look at my speedo. I've driven VW's 35 years and I know how fast I'm going by what gear I'm in.

I DO NOT have a fuel gauge. Before I leave I just use a wooden dowel rod and dip the tank like every Model "T" did 100 years ago. I know how far I can go on a tank of gas. I've only run out of gas one time in 22 years of driving my Buggy.

I DO NOT have wipers on my Buggy. When it rains I don't drive. Water gets on both sides of the windshield and having wipers on only one side does no good. I can raise my head and look over the top in an emergency.

95% of the time I do not use my turn signals. I just stick my arm out and use hand signals and it's still legal to do. [/quote]

But, I bet it would be nice to have a fuel gauge. It makes life easier.
When a police officer is following you, I like to look at the speedo.
If you have a top for it, water will not get on the backside of the windshield making wipers a nice safety item. I have a towel for the inside when tops off.
Some people don't know why your hand is stuck out!
JUST LOOKING AT THINGS A DIFFERENT WAY![/quote]

Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:13 am

I think the biggest problem is people who buy buggies underestimate the time and resources needed to finish these cars (also witnessed by project Beetles and Busses in the classifieds) They think they are a simple car and should "snap together" like aMonogram model. Many aren't prepared for the asorted things that go "wrong" and don't have the skills to deal with them even with guidance.

The fact that people try and jam as much stuff into one of these things or put on a bunch of stuff other people find tasteless in one of the appealing things for buggies. Yes there are a lot of things I personally don't like, checcker plate, heated seats, electrical systems and accesories that could rival a Boeing 767. But everyone builds the car to their taste and I appreciate them building their vision of a dunebuggy. I'm sure there are people who don't like some of the things I've done on my cars but they are my vision.

brad

Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:31 am

Quote: I think the biggest problem is people who buy buggies underestimate the time and resources needed to finish these cars (also witnessed by project Beetles and Busses in the classifieds) They think they are a simple car and should "snap together" like aMonogram model. Many aren't prepared for the asorted things that go "wrong" and don't have the skills to deal with them even with guidance
Your right, the time, cost and mechanical fabrication ability really adds up. If these unknowing people would figure it out, they would realize that to buy a finished one is cheaper. Plus, they could start having fun right away!

Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:33 am

I'm just downriver from LeClaire Iowa "Home of the American Pickers" Local point of pride for a small river town. :) They made a career out of "picking' (garbage picking) based on the idea that one mans trash is anothers treasure. Applied to the title of this thread I like to think I can see the value in Dune Buggies that others can't and I think I have enough talent to realize that value.

Junk cars can be found everywhere but fixing up a common car holds no appeal for me at all. Some folks like to build and improve, others want to buy the efforts of others labors.

I kind of like to think part of the 'mystique' of a buggy is that it almost always says I built this, it's mine and represents what I like and can do, and I can fix it if needed. If I build 'junk' it will show and be valued as such. These are not production vehicles, they are hobby/fun/recreational cars and many fall into disuse or poor maintenance and become 'pick-able' values to the rest of us. 8)