TheSamba.com :: View topic - Is this dizzy & cap correct for a NOV '54 bus?

Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:47 am

Look at the BOSCH name plate in the picture.

It's a pre-54 distributor.

Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:35 am

Now that's grand knowledge right there. :D

Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:21 pm

Yes, the above was a bad example as that appears to be a retouched 383 distributor.

Here's another that is more clear:

My purpose is to add as much info as possible from what I have at hand.
You decide.

For 54-55 engine information and photos, also check out this thread:
54-55 engine information

Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:42 am

Thanks, Everett.

Afaik, the owners' manuals were revised once or twice in '54 :?:

If that is correct, *perhaps* referencing the one issued prior to November should be correct? Which edition are your scans from?

The spring clip argument is looking convincing though. :)

Thanks for the engine thread link...I foresee that becoming a common read in my life in the near future.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:21 am

Manuals often are retouched and show older or early/pre production stuff.
f.e. the 1950 sale brochure clearly shows the 1949 prototype pics.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:56 am

djfordmanjack wrote: Manuals often are retouched and show older or early/pre production stuff.
f.e. the 1950 sale brochure clearly shows the 1949 prototype pics.

Thanks for the tip.

Prototype stuff, in a production brochure? :o Wow!

Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:54 am

here you are, vertical engine vents , different seats, carpet in cargo room aso, all pre production.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/literature50busbooklet.php

Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:24 am

djfordmanjack wrote: here you are, vertical engine vents , different seats, carpet in cargo room aso, all pre production.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/literature50busbooklet.php

That's epically wicked. 8)

Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:38 am

Merlin wrote: Afaik, the owners' manuals were revised once or twice in '54 :?:

If that is correct, *perhaps* referencing the one issued prior to November should be correct? Which edition are your scans from?

The manuals are here on the site
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/type2.php

The 2nd one I posted above was the March, 1955 edition so not Barndoor.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:49 am

EverettB wrote: Merlin wrote: Afaik, the owners' manuals were revised once or twice in '54 :?:

If that is correct, *perhaps* referencing the one issued prior to November should be correct? Which edition are your scans from?

The manuals are here on the site
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/type2.php

The 2nd one I posted above was the March, 1955 edition so not Barndoor.

Thanks, Everett.

Keeping the retouching issue in mind, a quick comparison between the SEP '54 manual and the MAR '55 manual shows a spring-clip dizzy. :)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:14 pm

I haven't seen anyone ask about this, but shouldn't the dizzy in question have a date code stamped in the casting?

Would it be the number of the month and then a K for 54? For instance 9K or 10K?

I remembered this thread from early beetles:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279505&highlight=hella+bosch+date+code

Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:45 am

dmuis wrote: I haven't seen anyone ask about this, but shouldn't the dizzy in question have a date code stamped in the casting?

Would it be the number of the month and then a K for 54? For instance 9K or 10K?

I remembered this thread from early beetles:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279505&highlight=hella+bosch+date+code

I've just checked this dizzy and I can't find a single stamped character anywhere on it. It must be a later thing.

I have just learn't something though... Thanks. :D

Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:39 am

I would not take this as any sort of proof but I looked at some of my VJ4BR8 distributors vs. my VJR4BR8 distributors and the VJ4BR8 ones don't seem to have stamps while the VJR4BR8 ones do.

I have had a distributor with a "K" on it for 1954 in the past though - I see one in my deleted ads on here. But it was an "R" (Resistor) distributor.

Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:55 am

EverettB wrote: I would not take this as any sort of proof but I looked at some of my VJ4BR8 distributors vs. my VJR4BR8 distributors and the VJ4BR8 ones don't seem to have stamps while the VJR4BR8 ones do.

I have had a distributor with a "K" on it for 1954 in the past though - I see one in my deleted ads on here. But it was an "R" (Resistor) distributor.

Thank you for that, Everett. :)

I gather that the 'R' dizzies must've been for Deluxes...radios...

Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:58 am

Merlin wrote: I gather that the 'R' dizzies must've been for Deluxes...radios...
Funny thing is the resistor is in the rotor and not the distributor.

Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:04 am

Glenn wrote: Merlin wrote: I gather that the 'R' dizzies must've been for Deluxes...radios...
Funny thing is the resistor is in the rotor and not the distributor.

My electrical knowledge is quantifiable as 'dangerous', so I won't even attempt to expand on that. :lol:

Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:42 am

No resistor left - resistor right

Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:50 am

Much appreciated.

Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:56 pm

I have stumbled upon this thread purely by chance. I do not like the term dizzy...

Re: the odd distributor cap. These were not used on VW distributors but were on other makes. I have a 1956 Goliath distributor VJ 4 BR 16 that used that cap. It is compatible with the VJ(R) 4 BR 8! It's just not correct appearance. The BR 8's have a taller points cam and this cap and the BR 8 rotor will function.
If you want to be unique I'd run it. If you want to be original I would go with the more typical and MUCH easier to find cap used on the BR 8, 019, 010 distributors.

1954 was an interesting year for VW distributors. In December 1953 the VJ 4 BR 2 was introduced and used very briefly before being superceeded mid month January 1954. That was less than a 30 day production run making these distributors quite rare. The new distributor VJ 4 BR 3 was used from mid January until mid August 1954. At that point the VJ (R) 4 BR 8 was introduced and used on the bus until the end of 36 hp bus production in 1959. Beetle distributors followed the same timeline with the addition of the "U" in the badge number which represents "vacuum canister".

The 1954 distributors do not have the boss for a lubricator on them. So you would be looking for a shiny badged VJ 4 BR 8 distributor without the lubrication boss for a November 1954 car.

As far as the date stamps go: It's not unusual to have a distributor without a stamp or one that is faint and unreadable. They were stamped by hand and sometimes came out unclear. You may need to really scour your distributor in order to find a stamping in an unusual location. according to Progressive Refinements the date stamping started in 1952 (if I recall correctly) but I have worked on VW distributors clear back to 1946 with a "B" stamping and even a pre-war Bosch /Lavalier distributor with a different date code stamping system altogether.

Like Glenn I have looked at piles of early distributors. The cap clip style thing may never really be solved. It is sooo easy to switch cap clips takes only a few minutes. I've had an 019 core sent to me for restoration that had the wire cap clips. I'm certain it didn't come from the Bosch factory that way. A PO thought it looked 8) . I also have had in hand two distributors from November 1954 that have had spring clips on one and wire clips on the other... Heck, you could even mix'n match if you wanted to and have one of each on the same distributor :? .

On the topic of badges; the late 383 distributors actually had the later style badges, so it can get confusing. The 383 was used into late 1958 on Porsches and possibly other makes. While the cap clips debate may be hard to solve it is fairly clear that Bosch used two badge finishes throughout the mid 1950's. Painted and silver finish in mid 1940's through the early 1950's. Then in late 1953 they switched to what has come to be called an anodized finish which is not shiny and then in late 1956 they went back to the shiny finish until the end of cast iron production in 1965.

With regards to the use of prototypes in the owners manuals etc. The picture of the engine at the bottom of page one of this thread actually shows a distributor badge indicating that it is a prototype distributor. The part number is hand stamped on the shiny rectangle at the bottom middle of the badge instead of a production badge stamping.

Here is some interesting reading on the early distributors:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=510576&highlight=rare

Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:59 am

Thank you, tasb.

That's some extraordinary knowledge right there.

I've made notes and will keep an eye and ear out for the correct distributor and cap.