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Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:26 am

cdennisg wrote: chrisflstf wrote: Quote: Crowsfoot wheels are not stronger Thats just your opinion which isnt based on anything factual. The stampings around the bolt holes arent just for looks

The slots in Crows feet wheels are larger than non- crowsfeet wheels. Stick your hand in there and you will feel the difference

If they are stronger, why is that possibility never ever mentioned in any literature, and crows foot wheels are found on any variety of buses regardless of intended use? I can see that the stampings could provide for some lateral stiffness around the lug hole, but to say that they are a stronger wheel because of that is supposition at best.

As to the slots...
Clara wrote: There are different sizes of the slots, crows are bigger.
Some non-crow have the bigger slots, same as crow.
Some have slighter smaller slots.

While I am not an engineer, I also agree with "cdennisg" that neither wheel is measurably stronger than the other (granted... the area around the lug bolt hole is probably a little stiffer on the crowsfoot wheels than the Kronprinz wheels). "If" one type of wheel was designed to more strong to meet some structural or safety need from the folks at Volkswagen, there would be obvious documentation and warnings in parts department manuals, service manuals and different part numbers and notations for which models needed which wheels. Volkswagen was pretty thorough about warnings of what parts to use for safety reasons. I suspect that we are really just looking at slight differences between two vendor/suppliers of wheels for Transporters over several years.

But I certainly could be wrong... if so, please show us your evidence in period Volkswagen publications so we can learn from it.

Bill Bowman

Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:11 pm

BulliBill wrote: cdennisg wrote: chrisflstf wrote: Quote: Crowsfoot wheels are not stronger Thats just your opinion which isnt based on anything factual. The stampings around the bolt holes arent just for looks

The slots in Crows feet wheels are larger than non- crowsfeet wheels. Stick your hand in there and you will feel the difference

If they are stronger, why is that possibility never ever mentioned in any literature, and crows foot wheels are found on any variety of buses regardless of intended use? I can see that the stampings could provide for some lateral stiffness around the lug hole, but to say that they are a stronger wheel because of that is supposition at best.

As to the slots...
Clara wrote: There are different sizes of the slots, crows are bigger.
Some non-crow have the bigger slots, same as crow.
Some have slighter smaller slots.

While I am not an engineer, I also agree with "cdennisg" that neither wheel is measurably stronger than the other (granted... the area around the lug bolt hole is probably a little stiffer on the crowsfoot wheels than the Kronprinz wheels). "If" one type of wheel was designed to more strong to meet some structural or safety need from the folks at Volkswagen, there would be obvious documentation and warnings in parts department manuals, service manuals and different part numbers and notations for which models needed which wheels. Volkswagen was pretty thorough about warnings of what parts to use for safety reasons. I suspect that we are really just looking at slight differences between two vendor/suppliers of wheels for Transporters over several years.

But I certainly could be wrong... if so, please show us your evidence in period Volkswagen publications so we can learn from it.

Bill Bowman

^^^ This. Bill said it way better than I.

Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:34 am

Good to see this ancient topic resurface. I posted about this many years ago. I even took pics and measurements etc etc.
Im sure if you search you can find it.
Crows are definitely different. Ive been addicted to them for years. :)
My bus has all 5 7/57 crows with it.

Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:04 am

mightymouse wrote: Good to see this ancient topic resurface. I posted about this many years ago. I even took pics and measurements etc etc.
Im sure if you search you can find it.
Crows are definitely different. Ive been addicted to them for years. :)
My bus has all 5 7/57 crows with it.

I thought about digging up some old threads when this was first posted, but I thought maybe we needed to revisit the topic again. This is the first time that I have heard the claim that crows foot wheels are stronger.

Maybe we need to dig out a random selection of wheels, take some measurements and photos, and post them up. I have measured before, but not with much photographic evidence.

Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:38 pm

for what is worth, I've been trying to locate 2-58 wheel for quite some time, if anyone happens to have one, please let me know

Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:55 pm

Chad M wrote: Are there more wheel manufactures than the Lemmerz, Kronprinz and VW for the 15" split buses?
I have not run across the "bigger slot" non-crow... which manufacturer would have made these?
Are the wheels marked VW actually made by VW?
Thanks in advance!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1552233

It think this might be an example of the wheels that Clara mentioned earlier in the thread... those are some big slots in that late Kronprinz wheel.

Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:45 pm

Chad M wrote: Chad M wrote: Are there more wheel manufactures than the Lemmerz, Kronprinz and VW for the 15" split buses?
I have not run across the "bigger slot" non-crow... which manufacturer would have made these?
Are the wheels marked VW actually made by VW?
Thanks in advance!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1552233

It think this might be an example of the wheels that Clara mentioned earlier in the thread... those are some big slots in that late Kronprinz wheel.

I have a set of those NOS if there is something specific you want me to measure.

They may be buried though.

Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:23 am

Hi anyone know what the offset on crowsfeet rims are?
Cheers

Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:35 am

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2722318#2722318

Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:07 pm

Malokin Martin wrote: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2722318#2722318

That thread doesn't mention much about the offset, only the visual differences.

If the question is about the difference in offset between crowsfoot and regular bus 15" wheels, the answer is that there is minimal difference. A few mm at the most.

Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:23 pm

cdennisg wrote: Malokin Martin wrote: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2722318#2722318

That thread doesn't mention much about the offset, only the visual differences.

If the question is about the difference in offset between crowsfoot and regular bus 15" wheels, the answer is that there is minimal difference. A few mm at the most. Seems like I remember the lowering crowd using/wanting crowsfoot wheels due to the offset difference. It has to be very minimal at like you suggested.
There is quite a bit of difference between the two types. If you've seen a few they are fairly easy to spot, especially if they are mounted on the same side.

Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:39 pm

Stocknazi wrote: cdennisg wrote: Malokin Martin wrote: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2722318#2722318

That thread doesn't mention much about the offset, only the visual differences.

If the question is about the difference in offset between crowsfoot and regular bus 15" wheels, the answer is that there is minimal difference. A few mm at the most. Seems like I remember the lowering crowd using/wanting crowsfoot wheels due to the offset difference. It has to be very minimal at like you suggested.
There is quite a bit of difference between the two types. If you've seen a few they are fairly easy to spot, especially if they are mounted on the same side.

There is a myth that crowfoot are 1/4" different offset, so they are used up front for inner dogleg clearance on low buses. When I measured them long ago I found barely more than 1/16" over the multiple wheels I had around at the time.

I know I posted this info in a thread somewhere, but I can't find it. Maybe the lowered bus thread?

Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:21 pm

Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:49 pm

^^^ Yeah, but what's the offset? 8)

Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:36 pm

Back when one of the first crowsfoot threads was started, I measured some of my wheels.
I concur that the offset is minimal, perhaps even miniscule.
In the order of a couple mm as cdennisg stated

A couple years ago I got a killer deal on Porsche 944 front brakes, so, although my drums worked just fine, I installed the 944 brakes on the Kombi.
I found (to my surprise actually) that the Kronprinz rims contacted the calipers ever so slightly, but the Lemmerz did not.
Tried this on both sides and with different wheels with the same result.

For what it's worth, that couple mm made the difference between clearing the caliper and not.

Means I have to have a crowfoot for the spare too.

Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:40 am

It’s answered in the link. With a micrometer. Lol.

mightymouse wrote: OK, heres some morsels for you guys.
one thing i will say i just learned, after years of hearsay... the offsets are the same. from hub mount to rim back and front is identical, so the track width of the car would not be altered. yet for years my friends ran crows on lowered busses because they said it narrowed the track a bit. not true.

Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:21 am

I think any differences in offset is due to basic variations in manufacturing tolerances at the time, with different vendors making the same part.

I have a set of straight matched date code wheels from 1963 that arent exactly the same. When i put discs on the front, one rubbed, the other didnt. But it was a small amount

Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:27 am

chrisflstf wrote: I think any differences in offset is due to basic variations in manufacturing tolerances at the time, with different vendors making the same part.

I have a set of straight matched date code wheels from 1963 that arent exactly the same. When i put discs on the front, one rubbed, the other didnt. But it was a small amount

Agree 100%.