TheSamba.com :: View topic - Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:14 pm

Kenneth: headlights dimmer relay cuts power to low beams when stably engaging the high beams ("latching" as you say). I'd thus suspect your issue to be related to the steering column stalk and start investigating from there.
what circuit diagrams are you using?

hopkin: that should be the "returning " fuel gauge I've seen in some youtube videos (i.e. it goes to "zero" when power is removed). from what I can see of the board I'd suspect most of the circuitry on the right side of the PCB (looking from the front of the gauge) to be related to the brake light.

Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:07 pm

Thanks for the feed back. I did check the #10 Fuse. Pulled and puit a meter to it and it is not blown. Took the column cover off and removed all the plugs under the steering column. Sprayed the terminals with contact cleaner and re-installed. Again no luck Same symptoms. I ordered another Headlight switch just in case but is there anyway a bad headlight switch could be the issue? I read several other posts about some issues resolved by taking apart and cleaning the contacts in the switch but wondering if electrically this could cause it to not turn on? I attached some pictures of the dash. The car had AC but since the plastic housing started cracking and no amout of fiberglass or expoxy could keep it together, I am replacing it with a smaller unit under the passenger glove box. You will notice that there is an additional relay that is no longer wired ( Blie and Black coiled up wire that I removed when I took the old underdash unit and electric fan unit out from the front of car. I was very carefull when removing those wires but not sure if the headlight issue is related to me removing the AC wires or not?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:11 pm

There is a Grey Wire with White connector floating above the #30 Relay but I do not think it was ever plugged in anywhere. Probably factory Radio?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:15 pm

Also, the Black wire that is not plugged in (with the blue male terminal) was originally for the Air Conditioner. You can see it floating between the the Green 30AMP Fuse and the Red 10A fuse. Does any of the wires look out of place on the Fuse terminal itself?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:32 am

Kenneth Ford wrote: There is a Grey Wire with White connector floating above the #30 Relay but I do not think it was ever plugged in anywhere. Probably factory Radio?

I have the same connector on mine, never been connected to anything.
At first glance the fuse box looks OK, but you would want to make sure those relay and associated wires are not shorting anything.

Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:10 am

Kenneth Ford wrote: Thanks for the feed back. I did check the #10 Fuse. Pulled and puit a meter to it and it is not blown.

Check if there is power getting to the fuse 10 contacts.

The reason I suggested a problem with fuse 10 is because that's where the light switch gets it's power from.

If you pull the lever for the high beams, the power is send from a constant + (not via ignition), to the headlights, but it then also feeds back to fuse 10. That's why your wipers work when pulling the lever.
So, that's why I suggested a bad fuse. But if the fuse is good, it means that there is no power getting to the fuse at all.

The fuse should get power when the ignition key is turned to "on".
Does anything work when the ignition is put in the "on" position?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:07 pm

Hello, I'm wondering does the seats of a golf gti fit on the stock rails?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:45 pm

IIRC yes but they need to be modified at the back as the rail spacing isn't the same. assuming you refer to MK1/2 GTIs

on a completely unrelated matter:

I have VCDS on my laptop to read the ECU of my bug. Carrying the laptop in the garage isn't however exactly practical.
Browsing the net, it seems a lot of hand-held devices are on the market, they cite various timeframes of applicability to VW models but I'm a bit reluctant to bet my money on something unknown so, does anyone know if there is a handheld device (possibily one that doesn't cost an arm and leg to buy...) out there performing the work of a VAG 1551/1552?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:38 pm

@Gerrelt, I checked voltage on the following conditions.
With only the headlamp switch on = 0 volts at Fuse 10.
Key Turned on and Headlight Switch on = 0 Volts at Fuse 10,
Key turned on and Head light switch on, pulling the High Beam
stalk = 11.8 Volts........

Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:47 pm

@Gerrelt, Key turned on only = 0 Volts at Fuse 10.

To summarize, only getting Voltage at Fuse 10 when I have head light on and I am pulling back on the high beam stalk.

Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:07 am

Kenneth Ford wrote: To summarize, only getting Voltage at Fuse 10 when I have head light on and I am pulling back on the high beam stalk.

Yes, that is feedback power you get from the high beam.

There is no power going to fuse 10, that is your problem. I think this fuse gets it's power directly from the ignition switch.
So there might be something wrong with the ignition switch. The little white switch block does fail sometimes.
I mean this part ( I am not sure if this is the right one for the 1600i beetle!):

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Ignition-Switch-1974-79-Type-1-and-2-171-905-865-p/171-905-865.htm

Does the starter motor run if you turn the key?

Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:56 am

Looks like they have the same root part number (photo from Antonio).

Does the 'L' suffix make a difference?

Another photo from www.1600i.de:

Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:58 pm

Hmm.... I am gonna have to trace the wire color code from Fuse 10 back to the white ignition switch to find out the color and Pin. I noticed the 1st picture from the CIP1 web site shows 5 wire terminals and the one from Antonio shows 6 wire terminals? Hope fully if I am able to trace the wire back from Fuse to switch, I could pull the original switch out from the Keys portion of the ignition switch and then maybe try and spray contact cleaner or even confirm that there is power coming from the white switch. Theres always the possibility that the power wire that is suppose to go to the 10 Fuse was inadvertently disconnected. Appreciate all the responses from everyone to try and help me get this resolved. Hopefully I can make some headway over the next day or so and will make sure to update everyone with what I find.
If you guys think of anything else to check to continue trouble shooting would love to hear your thought :)

Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:45 pm

So....

my new Headlight switch arrived and after installing it...... as expected it diod not resolve the issue of my normal lights not turning on. I managed to find an epectrical diagram for a 1998 1600i but to honest.....cant seem to make sense of it? Not like the color coordinated traditional drawing that I am use to so have no idea how to make sense of it. Page 16 of 35.....
I have looked at the 4 wires that come from the Ignition switch Black/Yellow and Black/Red and Red and Black that go to the fuse area. One of these woires is suppose to provide 12 Volts to Fuse 10 when the ignition switch is turned on but the only wire I see going directly to Fuse 10 is Yellow and Black wire and I have measured that after turning key on and no power...... the only other wire that goes to Fuse 10 is a smaller Black with grey stripe wire that doesn't come from the key switch. Is that to say that the thicker gauge Yellow and black wire is the one that is suppose to provide 12 volts to Fuse 10 when the key is switched on? again, no way to understand the electrical wiring diagram that I found on the web so cannot confirm that is the case. If in fact the yellow and black wire is NOT providing 12 Volts, then it would say that the white plastic switch is truly bad...... Since I live in Arizona, I would need to order the switch from Antonio and this would obviously take time..... trying to confirm electronically if in fact this switch is truly bad..... can anyone tell me where the 12 Volts originates from that goes to the white switch itself? my understanding is that once teh switch is turned, the 12 volts passes through the white switch and then gets re-distributed to Fuse 10. Then when I turn the Dash light onto the head light position, I have 12 volts to energize the head lamps themselves...... ????? Dying to start driving my bug again to and from work to utilize the 4.12 Transmission I installed :)

Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:24 pm

Ahhh! Finally figured it out!!!!

After looking at the Electrical drawing from the Web for an hour.....
I finally understand how they have it layed out. Found S10 which is Fuse 10 on 10/3 and realized that there is suppose to be a total of 4 wires from Fuse 10.
Three of which are Yellow and Black and one which is Black and Grey. I must have pulled the thick Yellow and Black wire coming from the ignition switch to from Fuse 10 and installed it onto Fuse 11 by mistake when I pulled the wires from the AC evaporator system that I removed. I re-installed the thicjk Yellow and Black wire that comes from the Ignition switch back ointo Fuse 10 and I now have Head Lamps!!!! High Beams also continue to work and all is "Good in the world" LOL....... I do have one more question though.....I notice that the Grey and Black thin gauge wire is also installed onto Fuse 11...... and according to the drawing..... it should go to Fuse 10...... this being installed onto fuse 11 doesn't see to have any issue or impact to the function of the car being on Fuse 11. Could this possibly be the thing grey and black wire that is not plugged into anything? and possibly goes to the Original Radio?

Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:23 pm

I hate to say this the Giant Box Amazon has your ignition switch for less I know I got one just incase of heavy keys
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0066SFV72/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Sam

Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:08 am

Hi there, another one founded in Russia 1984 Velvet-Red in original state without globally resto-works...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:45 pm

I think my questions got a bit lost amongst other's rather more urgent issues, so I'm going to quote myself here:

GArBa wrote:
I have VCDS on my laptop to read the ECU of my bug. Carrying the laptop in the garage isn't however exactly practical.
Browsing the net, it seems a lot of hand-held devices are on the market, they cite various timeframes of applicability to VW models but I'm a bit reluctant to bet my money on something unknown so, does anyone know if there is a handheld device (possibily one that doesn't cost an arm and leg to buy...) out there performing the work of a VAG 1551/1552?

and this one:

GArBa wrote:
hopkin: that should be the "returning " fuel gauge I've seen in some youtube videos (i.e. it goes to "zero" when power is removed). from what I can see of the board I'd suspect most of the circuitry on the right side of the PCB (looking from the front of the gauge) to be related to the brake light.

ok, last one is technically not a question, just curious if the workings are similar (voltmeter) why have our model years "staying" and later ones "returning".

to make this an interesting post here a pic of my wife in the car. (sorry, can't remember the name of that handsome man with the beard who's driving.)

Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:53 am

Sorry, I can't help you with the questions. I always thought the "staying" fuel gauge was cheaper to produce then the returning. But I don't know the specifics.

Great picture, btw! :)

Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:10 am

Gas Gauge:

Looking through the schematics, I think I see why the pre-'98 gauges stay.

On the pre-'98, the circuit is simple, the gauge is powered from S12 (which I assume still has power with the key on).

The sender (in the tank) pulls the circuit to GND as the gas level drops. The gauge would stay in position regardless of the key position.

On the post '98, the sender and gauge work the same, but it looks like (after a few pages of tracing the circuit) the gauge is powered from the Alarm Circuit, which (I assume) cuts the power to the gauge when the key is off.

I might wrong, in which case :oops: