TheSamba.com :: View topic - Heat pump trips circuit breaker after a while

Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:39 am

gt1953 wrote: Cusser get ready for a new compressor if you have never changed it. More then likely that will be the outcome.

Gordon - I'm afearin' that...

Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:43 pm

Cusser wrote: gt1953 wrote: Cusser get ready for a new compressor if you have never changed it. More then likely that will be the outcome.

Gordon - I'm afearin' that...

Service call today...heat pump is 18 years old...used constantly because it's so ungawdly hot here for so long. Turns out that the compressor likely was on its last legs, and drawing too many amps, tripping the breakers.

Apparently, with an Internet search, it's really dumb - and STOOPID - to put a compressor into something of this vintage. So I'm looking at minimum of $5K for this....lessee $1100 for my 1970 back in 1972, $1300 for my '71 Convertible in 1976, $5K for my 1988 Mazda truck back in 1994...but not much I can do here....

Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:50 pm

Cusser

See if your utility or state will kick in money on an energy efficient upgrade. Here in CA you can get a little bit for things like this

Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:33 pm

barfy wrote: Cusser

See if your utility or state will kick in money on an energy efficient upgrade. Here in CA you can get a little bit for things like this

Yes, local utility will credit some, and maybe more on next year's taxes...

Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:41 pm

Update with photos at http://www.mazdatrucking.com/forum/showthread.php/13551-Heat-pump-not-staying-on/page3

Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:05 pm

Cusser wrote: Update with photos at http://www.mazdatrucking.com/forum/showthread.php/13551-Heat-pump-not-staying-on/page3

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Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:35 am

EverettB wrote: Cusser wrote: Update with photos at http://www.mazdatrucking.com/forum/showthread.php/13551-Heat-pump-not-staying-on/page3

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I didn't know that, so http://www.mazdatrucking.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/34-Lounge and scroll down may work.

But I'll just copy here:
OK - here's the situation. The red wire at the compressor had burned its connector, so was hangin' free.

I took out the fuses, and removed the round condenser fan cover, worked between the blades. The compressor connection is low and faces away so I used a drop light and mirror to see as best as I could, then decided to try to lower the camera in to take photos. It looks like there are three cylindrical pins coming out of the compressor, and the one (lower left) where the red wire had been connected still has some of the terminal stuck on that. Here's what the compressor connections look like.

If I take the ENTIRE top of the unit off, I would have a little better angle to actually have a chance of seeing what I was doing. I guess I need to try to get that "welded" piece of terminal off the cylindrical post, and try to get a crimp-connector to repair the end of that red wire, almost like a female bullet connector. So maybe you guys can provide a link or better description so I could find something that might work.
Are these on the right track? Or are there simply repair connectors available? I need to say that the repair guy did mention that a re-wire kit could work, but he said with parts plus capacitor and his service rate, may or may not work.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUICKPRODUCTS-QUICKLUG-COM...4ab99d77dc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Air-Conditioner-Compres...1c1dcdf7ab

Here's a photo of the capacitor he said was bad, which could've started the whole scenario.

Quick-start capacitor

Post 2:
I guess first I should check the compressor posts with the ohmmeter, and make sure that the connection for the red fitting is NOT shorted to ground, and that there measurable resistance between the terminals where the black and red wires attach.

I had already checked the black wire and it wasn't shorted, but I checked the red wire before I knew that it was disconnected, so that meant nothing. Also meaning nothing was when the tech got "open" infinite resistance between the black and red wires to compressor, because the red wire wasn't connected to anything.

Anyone know approximately what the resistance should be if I measure between the terminals where the black and red wires go?

I had this in my garage, maybe something like this could just go over that cylindrical rod, even if I can't get that old piece of terminal off. Maybe even could us the entire part and then a crimp-on ring terminal on the red wire itself?

Of course, here's the obligatory injury photo, I cut my hand on the condenser fins looking at this with a mirror. Note to self: slide in a piece of cardboard if doing more to this.

Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:00 pm

those are relays on the compressor and most can not be replaced as residential units have sealed compressors

the main problem you are going to run into is most of the parts in need are only available to licensed tech from dealer only parts stores who will not sell to the public

depending on the brand of the unit you could luck out and johnstone supply may have the parts
they are the only HVAC supply that sells to the public here is their website

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/storefront/index.ep

Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:57 pm

I have local appliance shop that sells parts, like the capacitor. The compressor has continuity and resistance across all three terminals.

I think I'll be able to connect that red wire to the compressor through a McGyver adaptation. I'm hoping that I do not need to cut an access panel in the floor for better access. The compressor terminal is down about 2 feet and faces away from me (no direct access like in the YouTube videos) and hidden by the compressor's metal rectangular lip so I'm working using a mirror.

If I get that connected, then I go but capacitor.

Even those repair wiring kits for compressors have a screw to tighten, and that would likely only work if that by chance faced upward.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200985073729

Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:45 pm

They make a kit to replace the wires and connectors to the compressor. Do a search for Arnold's service. He I s a local hoax guy who has a web site that sells parts and shows you how to diagnose hvac issues. It will show you the kit he recommends. Maybe you can get one locally. I would recommend replacing all three wires and connectors. I had this happen several years ago and on l y had enough time to replace one connector and wire a week later o e of the other wires burned up.

Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:29 am

What you need is called a compressor terminal kit. It's three replacement wires with brass screw clips that bite onto the terminals when they're messed up. Assuming you turn the power off, this actually is one of the DIY things that the mechanically inclined HO can do.
Don't be afraid to take off the top cover that holds the fan & set it aside. Thats basically the only way to get down there. Trying to squeeze down around the fan, you run the risk of bending it & throwing it off balance.

Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:37 am

I may be faced with a similar situation but not on the cooling side the winter heating. My furnace is 20 plus. Hay still works as I service it annually. Had to replace the igniter over the years. But new furnaces are more fuel efficient. Now should I wait til it totally breaks or shop during the off season.
Now Cusser is doing great repairs but come on Cusser the unit is OLD and not as efficient as todays unit. Hope that it holds during the Hot Summer.

Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:39 pm

Sunday morning update:

I went back up, and re-checked this morning.

NONE of the three wires coming from the compressor are shorted to ground, re-checked twice more, checked while disconnected at end away from compressor (thick black common wire which goes to contactor, thick red run wire which goes to contactor, and smaller orange start wire which goes to the 60 microfarad start capacitor. So I'd say that the compressor has no grounded terminals. So it looks like my invention to re-connect that red wire isn't shorting anything either.

The resistance of the common (black) to start wire (orange) is 48.7 ohms.
The resistance of the common (black) to run wire (red) is 0.7 ohms.
The resistance of the run wire (red) to start wire (orange) is 48.1 ohms.

If I have the three wires disconnected, and turn the unit on, the blower fan and the condenser fan both run, and the breaker does not trip. If I reconnect those three wires and push the fuse disconnect back in, trips the breaker immediately. That happened whether or not I had the QuickStart capacitor connected across the two terminals of the start capacitor (assume that is right, how the service guy had it).

The resistance over the contactor terminals is essentially continuity when the contactor is pressed down.

Any next steps? At least I've seemed to learn a lot.

I did find that the unit was installed in 1996, and that I had the compressor replaced under its 10-year part warranty in 2005. That still cost me $770 then, labor, filter, 10.2 lbs of R-22. The units work hard here....

EDIT: I've since apparently found out that those compressor resistance readings of 48 ohms are WAY HIGHER than they should be. So looks like new heat pump will be coming my way soon....$$$$$

Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Cusser wrote:

If I have the three wires disconnected, and turn the unit on, the blower fan and the condenser fan both run, and the breaker does not trip. If I reconnect those three wires and push the fuse disconnect back in, trips the breaker immediately.

Yep, time for a new one.
The original compressor was probably a burn-out. If proper service procedures are not followed, the acid remaining in the system will eventually kill the new compressor as well. Still, only 9 years out of the original is not that great either. Don't just get a new unit and slap it in there. I'd bet the duct work is too small or just barely adequate. That is what works them to death. Have the entire system evaluated & a load calculation done.

Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:27 pm

Failer is on the correct path. Have a couple of different HVAC people look at the whole system.