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Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:55 pm

So I am thinking that this is way to much shaft play for the input shaft. But a second opinion is always a good thing. So is a new front bearing in order? just want to make sure before i tear into it. Thanks guys.

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:06 pm

Ummm.... that's usually called the input shaft and play like that is normal when the engine isn't in place to support the other end of the shaft. What's it like for in/out freeplay?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:10 pm

That's perfectly normal. The shaft end doesn't hang in midair like that
when it's installed, so the play you see is irrelevant. There is no bearing
where the shaft emerges from the clutch housing.

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:32 pm

When the engine and tranny are mated, the end of the shaft is supported by the pilot bearing. Pilot bearings have a relatively short life and will damage the shaft when they fail, be sure to replace yours while you have access.

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:32 pm

Sorry I meant input shaft. Thats good news. Thanks for the info guys.

Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:37 pm

I don't think that's normal.

My bus is an engine swap with an 091. We had some strange noises in my rebuilt trans, which, after investigation, were found to be due to the the front mainshaft bearing in the case being badly worn and allowing radial play.

When the transaxle was out, there was some in-out play on the input shaft - much less than your video. This was a clue to the trans builder that something wasn't right. After re-rebuilding, there was hardly any in-out play.

On mine, the front mainshaft bearing was replaced as well as the input shaft and the inputshaft-mainshaft joiner piece. All this was done "just in case" due to all of the cost of taking things apart.

kreemowest is right that there is no bearing holding that end up. Still, my suggestion before you put it all back together is at least to ask a transmission pro for their opinion.

Good luck!

Mark

Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:47 pm

markd89 wrote: I don't think that's normal.

My bus is an engine swap with an 091. We had some strange noises in my rebuilt trans, which, after investigation, were found to be due to the the front mainshaft bearing in the case being badly worn and allowing radial play.

When the transaxle was out, there was some in-out play on the input shaft - much less than your video. This was a clue to the trans builder that something wasn't right. After re-rebuilding, there was hardly any in-out play.

On mine, the front mainshaft bearing was replaced as well as the input shaft and the inputshaft-mainshaft joiner piece. All this was done "just in case" due to all of the cost of taking things apart.

kreemowest is right that there is no bearing holding that end up. Still, my suggestion before you put it all back together is at least to ask a transmission pro for their opinion.

Good luck!

Mark

I haven't had a chance to get back to the shop and check in/out play. But I will definitely check it out tomorrow. I also have to say that I had no issues with shifting or strange noises coming from the transmission before I pulled it.

Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:14 pm

i just had my hands all up in one of these...

if you have lots on in/out play (axial play) you may be in trouble. the wobbly shaft is due to its design. you would be hard pressed to tell bearing condition unless you pull the bell housing

Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:09 am

VW's 2-piece "quill shaft" design is absolutely brilliant. But the "feel" often confuses a newbie.

If there is no slop, this is a clue that someone without a manual installed the input shaft incorrectly, believing that "rigid" = good.

In & out movement would suggest that the mainshaft's front ball bearing isn't securely held within the case. This is quite common in old, worn out transaxles.

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:15 am

gears wrote: VW's 2-piece "quill shaft" design is absolutely brilliant. But the "feel" often confuses a newbie.

If there is no slop, this is a clue that someone without a manual installed the input shaft incorrectly, believing that "rigid" = good.

In & out movement would suggest that the mainshaft's front ball bearing isn't securely held within the case. This is quite common in old, worn out transaxles.

Thanks for the info and well advised. But I am far from a "newbie" it's just that the wobble is just a bit more than I have seen in past transmissions. So I was just looking for a helpfull second opinion. Thanks

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:13 am

Here's an item to feed the paranoia: it has been (rarely) reported that the input shaft securing stud can sometimes screw itself all the way
into/out of the input/main shaft, thus causing separation of the two shaft segments. One supposes that at some stage of this process, there will
be excessive input shaft "wobble" present. The solution is to remove the clutch housing and inspect, perhaps replacing the original 7 mm stud with
one having a non-continuous thread, or just a longer one.

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:18 am

kreemoweet wrote: Here's an item to feed the paranoia: it has been (rarely) reported that the input shaft securing stud can sometimes screw itself all the way
into/out of the input/main shaft, thus causing separation of the two shaft segments. One supposes that at some stage of this process, there will
be excessive input shaft "wobble" present. The solution is to remove the clutch housing and inspect, perhaps replacing the original 7 mm stud with
one having a non-continuous thread, or just a longer one.

Wow that sucks. I'll check in/out play tonight and maybe pull the bell housing just to get a better look at things.

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:20 am

Unscrew that shaft and take a look at the other end.

Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:55 pm

I have just looked at that video clip again. The first time I guess I didn't let it go all the way to the end and missed the shaft getting moved pretty damn
far to the right, which seems very abnormal. Time to open it up and have a look.

Here's a relevant thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=557933.

Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:05 am

I have an 091 that the input shaft can be pulled out 4 inches or so, completely seperated from the mainshaft. you can slide it back in and mate them back together solid and everything turns all right. what do I need to do so that the input shaft isnt loose like that?

Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:10 am

Drain the tranny and remove the bellhousing and tell us what you find in there. The problem should be fairly obvious once you can see how everything attaches.

Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:28 pm

Yes some play is normal but the play you are experiencing is a little excessive. The problem may not be entirely with the input shaft though. (if at all.) One little thing that everyone seemed to miss but was glaringly apparent to me on your video.

The oil slinger / input shaft support in the bell housing itself is loose and being moved around along with the input shaft when you checked it. that oil slinger is a tolerance press fit then it is also swedged for good measure. In most cases it may not be something fixable, you will most likely need to replace the bell housing. Take a closer look at your vid you will see what I mean. Otherwise you will get a good look at what I am talking about when you remove the bell housing.

Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:26 pm

To link to this post
Code: [url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7987475#7987475]Rear main drive (Input) Shaft, Clutch shaft, Came coming out[/url]

Redvolk65 was removing his old Engine to Replace it with a dual port motor. But the transmission shaft (input shaft) was stuck to the Engine and coming out of the transaxle with the engine.

This is the problem
Redvolk65 wrote:
#1 Shaft in.

#2 Shaft pulled out by Hand.

Parts involved
#1 main drive shaft, front
#2 main drive shaft, rear (input shaft)
#3 stud for main drive shaft junction prt# 902 210 01U
#10 reverse gear on main drive shaft
#11 circlip (lockring) 19 x 1.2 N 012 419 1
thanks to jersylooker

http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/3-006.jpg
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/3-007.jpg

Possible causes
#3 Main drive shaft stud:
stud too short
From dynamic vibration and inertia stud threaded itself out of #1 front main drive shaft into #2 rear main drive shaft (input shaft)
stud broke
#11 Circlip (lockring):
circlip popped off
circlip broke
#10 reverse gear:
reverse gear cracked or split

Diagnoses
Can be performed with trans in vehicle refer to repair manual for the following procedures.
Pull the starter side final drive flange and differential housing cover.
Remove and inspect, circlip, reverse gear, main shaft splines and make sure none of the stud is broke off in the main shafts.

Repair
Replace #3 with updated stud with collar in the center prt# 902 210 01U
Replace #11 Circlip (lockring) N-012-419-1
Replace #10 reverse gear. Note there is a thicker one available.

Install tips
[quote="gears"]Go to the dealer and purchase the improved version: Quote:

gears wrote: If it is a broken stud, it's because whoever installed it tightened it up to "feel solid". IMHO, backing off only a spline or two is not enough. Engine weight can snap the stud if the shafts leverage against one another. Our company has sold hundreds of custom Porsche racing mainshafts using the same 7mm stud and we've never broken one. That's because we tell the installer to back off a full quarter turn and let it feel sloppy. VW's newer replacement stud is better, as it has a centering feature.
Tcash wrote: There are two sides to a Circlip, C-Clip.

Tcash wrote: Replace the input shaft seal while you are at it.
Tcash wrote: Inspect the pilot bearing and replace if needed

Removing input shaft tranny out/bigbore

Parts links
https://weddleindustries.com/
INPUT CONNECTING STUD, WITH SH Part# N-902-210-01U
INPUT OR REV IDLER CIRCLIP Part Number: N-012-419-1
TYPE 2 BELL HOUSING GASKET Part Number: 091-301-131
INPUT SHAFT SEAL (NAK) Part Number: 113-311-113A
T2 FINAL DRIVE PLUG Part Number: 002-517-289A
002 FD SEAL,17.6MM WIDE (NAK)Part Number: 002-301-189C
091 FD SEAL, 15MM WIDE (NAK)Part Number: 091-301-189N

Links thanks to gears
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=557933
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568339
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6866970
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=530289
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=546488
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=539881
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=549819
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541494 ?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=385776