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Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:52 pm

Hi all, I'm closing in on putting my interior back together after sound deadening, rust dealing withing, mouse crap removing, ground lug replacing, leak fixing, hose re-hosing, panel re-attaching, chewed wire re-doing, insulation insulationing and some other things i've forgotten. (really, all i wanted to do was clean out from behind the cabinets!)

i'm going to replace the plywood floor with....plywood floor....and put this on top: http://www.flor.com/working-class-tan.html

i didn't see any threads where people treated the wood, but it seems like a decent idea in case moisture gets in? or is it overkill?

also, anybody have a favorite plywood for this? i just used a really nice something i can't remember for a different non-van project and it has stolen my heart so i was thinking of using that. spendy, but really nice. anybody got a favorite they've used?

also! i'm going to ask this so i don't learn the hard way, should i put the kitchen and bench seat back in before the floor goes down? i'm sure that's a dumb question, i can't remember which way i took them out.

thanks!

Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:01 pm

we found something similar in costco for $20
9' x 6' enough to do 2 westy's

Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:43 pm

$3.72 a square foot. I know its not a lot of space so in total won't cost too much. But, I thought I would offer an alternative.

There seems to be a constant stream of Commercial style carpet floor tiles used on craigslist for around $0.25-$0.50 a square foot. Essentially the same stuff. Usually removed from an office space or commercial building where some of the squares were literally NEVER stepped on.

Not sure where you are located, but here is an example from my local Craigslist. http://cosprings.craigslist.org/mat/4315115925.html

Just a thought, might be worth searching the local craigslist. :wink:

Also, I'm not sure about the Vanagon but in my Eurovan the ply floor was sealed with something and in my Sprinter its Marine grade plywood.

Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:34 am

Dont know vanagons, but know wooden cars. I think putting an untreated plywood down in a vehicle under carpet is a mistake.

Here's suggestions. Have lots of $$ and want the floor to outlast the car, get MDO plywood. Birch plywood is really nice and not nearly as expensive. There are a variety of floor underlayment plywoods out there, but a lot of times your are limited to 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2" - These usually use a marine or waterproof glue.

OK - so now you got wood. If using MDO, you should treat any cut edges.

So - here's a couple ways - get a quart of a spar urethane varnish. Thin it up to about 50% for the first coat. Then do one or two additional coats unthinned. Stuff takes a while to dry

Or Rustoleum makes a nice marine grade primer and top coat. About $16 quart on Amazon. Goes on nice. Using it on current project for "hidden, but exposed to weather" surfaces using a 4" roller. Primer dries in a few hours and topcoat should dry overnight.

But anything you do to help seal the wood is beneficial.

Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:22 am

Sealing ply is very important to prevent warpage. There is a new OSB type of sheet good out there I forget what they call it. Usually OSB would be a bad choice but this stuff is essentially made with some sort not plastic resin to bond all the bits together. It can be submersed it water for weeks without swelling warpage or distortion. Kind of spendy but you only need one sheet. It won't be at home depot, go to a real lumber yard. If not marine grade ply sealed all the way around. That means the bottom side too otherwise bottom side expands and it can cup.

Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:35 am

thanks for the tips gang. hopefully getting some good marine grade wood and/or sealing the crap out of a different kind plus plugging all the mystery leaks will make it good.

Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:46 am

If I remember correctly, my original subfloor is untreated plywood. It's held up fine for 25 years now.

No need to go overboard on this project. I've been woodworking for 30 years and worked in many cabinet shops when I was younger. There's no need for special material or sealing of any kind here. A standard 3/8-1/2" S2S plywood (sanded two sides) will work fine. It's solid and has all the knot holes filled. Available at most lumber yards and a common floor underlayment.

Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:52 am

thanks pdxwesty, good to know. it's gonna be sunny and 64 in our fair city today, good day to sit outside and work on the van huh?

Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:13 am

I see enough rotted or fungus-y wood in my life so I get paranoid about it. For my underlayment I used marine-grade plywood (mahogany) and gave it a coating of a penetrating epoxy I use for marine applications: http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/product.html
Overkill, maybe, but I don't plan on taking up the floor for a while. Blonde bamboo flooring over that, pretty nice.

Some plywoods have an outer veneer of a nice hardwood but the core plys (plies?) are softwood like poplar, which will rot out. Doug fir should be fine, I like the mahogany a little better for rot resistance. Marine grade has an exterior glue and no voids in the inner plys so water won't collect.
At the very least seal the edges of the plywood with varnish (use just about any oil-based varnish), you can thin the first couple of applications with naptha to help it penetrate. It will really soak up on the edges.

I put a solid layer of plywood down over the whole area and bolted the cabinets through it. They used some porous "sound dampening" fiber board under the galley cabinet but why do you want to store water in there when it leaks? Under the cabinets I put some PVC "shower pan liner" and ran it up the walls, we'll know in 10 years or so if that was a good idea.

Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:48 pm

Totally disagree with PDX - Any wood that has the potential to get wet and doesn't have a good opportunity to dry out is gonna eventually rot - best case it will stink. Not an issue with cabinets or headliners, etc, But a floor? :roll:

Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:15 pm

How's it going to get regularly wet? If it does you have much bigger problems. The occasional spill won't harm anything. It sits up on the floor ribs. It's inside the van the same as the plywood cabinets sitting on top of it. What kind of condition are your guys vans in? Bottom line is there shouldn't be enough water in the van to cause mold or rotting!

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:00 am

Wasn't it Yogi Berra who said, "In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."?

PDXWesty wrote:
Bottom line is there shouldn't be enough water in the van to cause mold or rotting!

Agreed there shouldn't, but damned if some water doesn't always end up getting inside a car anyway. Spills, tracked in from our fine PNW weather, condensation from cooking or breathing, my dog dripping water? It runs down to the low point. And, even with a little drainage and venting, it takes a long time to go out from that corner under the sink.
Fungus, like rust, never sleeps. Ask anybody with a wooden boat. So when I have it all apart, I prime and paint the steel and treat the wood. I just feel better having done that. Nobody else is obligated to do either.
Josh asked for advice, I offered mine. That's all. :D

Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:52 am

PDX - Well - your car floors shouldnt rot from the inside either......Anyway - my opinion is that you should treat the wood and I am allowed to disagree with yours - its always good to get more than one take on things and then the OP can decide.

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:29 am

i appreciate everyone's opinion, this is the biggest project i've taken on in my van (project creep kept adding to the to do list) thus far so it's great to know what others have done, whatever i choose to do.

how is this for a making it more confusing: the plywood i took out is in good shape, few signs of water (i should probably just put it back in now that i think about it) but some of the particle board pieces under the bench and kitchen were soaked to crumbling. so....everybody is right?

i think i found the leaks that caused the particle board crumbling but there is always another leak around the corner i assume.

i think i'll go middle ground: i'll finish the wood, but i won't try too hard at it. done!

thanks again y'all.

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:49 am

The ply might have been exterior grade. Particle board isn't. I don't see why there is even a debate on sealing your substrate. We are talking as cheap as ten bucks for a gallon of paint(don't use latex) or sealer and no special skills required. The only thing it does is add one extra day to the project for drying time.

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:06 am

would an exterior primer do the job?

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:20 am

Has anyone tried using Starboard from the marine industry? Seems like a reasonable product.

Would the extra expense be justified?

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:21 am

Hi,

Back in 2001 or thereabouts, I faced the three sections of the floor in my 82 westy with luan door skin (1/8"). I had installed the threes section floor with the seat tracks a few years earlier. I wanted to face the stock ply with cork but could not find anything suitable. So the door skin was a bit of a cheap fix.

Believe it or not, I shellacked the luan, then waxed. I had no allusions to the durability of this treatment but it did look good. Most of the time the floor was covered by a foam mat and a carpet.

I transferred this floor to my syncro when I camperized it. The luan had held up fairly good, but was stained (of course, the shellac is not very durable) in spots where I had an unfortunate beverage spill. But over all it had worked out fine. A satin polyurethane would have been much better coating.

I have some pics of the floor when I installed it in the syncro, in this blog entry.

http://shufti.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/westy-new-old-floor/

I'm still thinking of a cork replacement.

Alistair

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:32 am

Anything will help. Yes exterior primer will work. Don't use a latex based paint though as it is designed to let moisture migrate back and forth. Works well on siding and things that are going to see water from time to time so it let's moisture travel through it and escape the wood without delaminating. An oil base product will penetrate better and encapsulate the pc making more dimensionally stable. But if all I had was latex paint I would use it. Especially if you don't use exterior rated ply. If you are going to glue something to the plywood a little consideration should be given to glue and sealer compatibility.

Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:31 pm

riceye wrote: Has anyone tried using Starboard from the marine industry? Seems like a reasonable product.

Would the extra expense be justified?

Starboard is good stuff, but dense! It's UV stabilized, machines well and is pretty spendy. There is also regular polyethylene board (non-UV stabilized) with almost the same properties but cheaper. I think the plastic might flex more underfoot (than plywood) between the ridges of our floor. It would have a textured surface but you might still have a problem adhering a layer of flooring to it. It would make the whole water thing a non-issue, though.