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insyncro Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:05 am

Here is a little update on the Lizard Skin project:







The SC , sound control, shown previously was a purple color.
This black is the CI ceramic insulation and final spray layer.



This van will have a contrast with the interior and exterior being white Monstaliner and ABS side panels.













Wurth Anti Flutter Foam has been applied to certain areas to help reduce any vibration when doors are being shut and provides a sealed barrier for each compartment.
I am not showing all of the spots it is used, just some.
It is a two part product and is a closed cell foam.
The Lizard Skin products are sprayed directly over the Wurth Foam and adhesion is excellent.

All horizontal surfaces will be two part Rhino ProCS truckbed liner in black for durability.

SyncroScott Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:42 am

I'm impressed with how you manage to get the Lizard Skin in all the nooks and crannies! Is that using the sprayer and nozzle that are available from them, rolling it, some unique method you have devised on your own, or a combo of all three?

I like your use of that Wurth product. Made a mental note of that for my own uses.

Thanks for the write up and updates!

insyncro Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:49 am

SyncroScott wrote: I'm impressed with how you manage to get the Lizard Skin in all the nooks and crannies! Is that using the sprayer and nozzle that are available from them, rolling it, some unique method you have devised on your own, or a combo of all three?

I like your use of that Wurth product. Made a mental note of that for my own uses.

Thanks for the write up and updates!

Thanks.
Yes, I have designed and fabbed a flexible wand for use with the Lizard Skin spray tool.
The texture is harder to control the further the end of the wand gets and it will make larger blobs every so often if not kept clean.
I just have a rag soaked in a bucket of water nearby and keep wiping it down.

I will be experimenting with slightly thinning the products and spraying with a 2.0 Pressurized 3M Accuspray gun the next time around.
This should allow for minimal texture, but full coverage.

bene ben ben Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:48 am

Hello!
InSyncro.... what a superb thread! top notch!
Frustratingly, i live in sunny England and cant find a UK supplier of Lizard Skin products.
Does anybody know of a Uk supplier?
Or a supplier in the US that is willing to ship to the UK?
Or an equivalent product that is supplied in the UK?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers!
ben

scottbott Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:53 pm

I haver been reading through this post and have not noticed anything about the 'texture' of lizard skin,does it dry hard or rubbery and if it is sprayed inside a panel what happens to it if say a hole is drilled through the panel,does the drill go neatly through the product or will it flake off and leave a jagged edge around the drill hole.

insyncro Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:18 pm

scottbott wrote: I haver been reading through this post and have not noticed anything about the 'texture' of lizard skin,does it dry hard or rubbery and if it is sprayed inside a panel what happens to it if say a hole is drilled through the panel,does the drill go neatly through the product or will it flake off and leave a jagged edge around the drill hole.

Dries hard and cures harder, it will shrink a tiny bit.
If the product is applied to thickly, it will still dry hard and cure hard, but will show cracks, so I use multiple layers to build up to my desired thickness.

It will not flake off when drilled, very neat hole.

The texture is controlled by the air pressure and flow rate at the spray gun.

I have messed around with different rates and pressure, but in the end, just getting it evenly layered gives the best look, my opinion.
Most of the places it would be sprayed are not seen due to panels, cabinets, seats...so it doesn't really matter that much, my opinion.

0cean Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:54 pm

Anyone have any long term reports on this stuff?

insyncro Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:02 pm

0cean wrote: Anyone have any long term reports on this stuff?

My test sprays are 2 years old on one of my vans.
Looks exactly like the day I called it cured and replaced the panels.

Plenty of feedback on the net and Lizard Skin has a great customer support group.
Give them a ring and discuss any questions you have with them.

Microbusdeluxe Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:18 pm

Inspired by your detailed write up I'll be applying Lizard Skin on my syncro Westy in a couple of weeks. I tried to find the Wurth Anti flutter foam on line but haven't had any luck. Where did you find it?

I'm using the white version of the Lizard Skin ceramic insulation & not bothering with truck liner under the carpets, but sticking with the 2 Lizard products. I'm also going to put vibration damper (VB-2 from Cascade Audio) on the front doors and maybe the slider if it works well.

Right now I'm spraying Waxol Hardwax on the freshly steam cleaned underside then shooting Waxol soft wax in all of the body cavities and plugged chassis areas I can find. The p.o.s took great care of this rig. There is NO rust anywhere & I plan to keep it that way. Hopefully this chemical combo will give me silence on the road & peace of mind on the rust.

Merian Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:28 pm

you're on the other side of the continent from him so you might want to just check the Wurth web site

I liked the VB-2 but note that it is placed like a vapor barrier and you need to leave a lot of room around the clip holes for the panel to fit properly - a LOT

see their video on their web site for heat gun use, using tubes around lock rods, etc.

VB-2 is the LAST thing to do - so put speaker pads, dampener in first & also address any rust, window crank lub, window slider strips, etc.

insyncro Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:37 pm

Microbusdeluxe wrote: Inspired by your detailed write up I'll be applying Lizard Skin on my syncro Westy in a couple of weeks. I tried to find the Wurth Anti flutter foam on line but haven't had any luck. Where did you find it?

I'm using the white version of the Lizard Skin ceramic insulation & not bothering with truck liner under the carpets, but sticking with the 2 Lizard products. I'm also going to put vibration damper (VB-2 from Cascade Audio) on the front doors and maybe the slider if it works well.

Right now I'm spraying Waxol Hardwax on the freshly steam cleaned underside then shooting Waxol soft wax in all of the body cavities and plugged chassis areas I can find. The p.o.s took great care of this rig. There is NO rust anywhere & I plan to keep it that way. Hopefully this chemical combo will give me silence on the road & peace of mind on the rust.

Awesome and thank you.

Wurth products are only available direct.
Pmails me and we can discuss it further.
I will gladly purchase the products and ship them too you, also rent you the tool to apply them.

CHARLIE-DONT-SURF Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:47 am

Bene

http://www.findtheneedle.co.uk/companies/agriemach-ltd/news/lizard-skin-ceramic-insulation

Elvis :D

insyncro Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:52 am

CHARLIE-DONT-SURF wrote: Bene

http://www.findtheneedle.co.uk/companies/agriemach-ltd/news/lizard-skin-ceramic-insulation

Elvis :D

FYI, The Sound Control product must first be applied to any surface before the Ceramic Insulation.
The structural integrity of the SC is much much better than the CI.

This is covered on the main LizardSkin site and I would not apply just CI personally.

CHARLIE-DONT-SURF Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:28 am

sorry dad :lol:

Just threw a link up. Never used it, dont know anything about it. Just someone i know had some of them a couple of years back and i text them to find out.

remember kids, always read the instructions first and/or be supervised by a responsible adult.

Top thread BTW :D

lloydy Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:30 am

CHARLIE-DONT-SURF wrote:

Top thread BTW :D

indeed! almost makes me want to take the interior out again!

insyncro Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:41 am

CHARLIE-DONT-SURF wrote: sorry dad :lol:

Top thread BTW :D

I get soooo many questions about this stuff and the application.
Just making sure that no one goes with just the CI product and has horrible results.

Think of the SC as primer and CI as paint, the primer really is needed for proper adhesion.

And thanks, I try to share my experiences.

0cean Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:06 am

So you couldn't use CI on a pop top to reduce heat without SC? The SC stuff is heavy and would increase the weight a lot if added to a pop top.

AndyBees Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:19 am

Subscribed ..............


:D

insyncro Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:22 am

0cean wrote: So you couldn't use CI on a pop top to reduce heat without SC? The SC stuff is heavy and would increase the weight a lot if added to a pop top.

Correct, but you could just spray or roll one layer of SC, possibly even reduced a tiny bit with H2O as a base, than layer up the CI.

Again, I am experimenting still with numerous variables to try and be able to offer the best advice and give various finish textures.

Finish color is another aspect I am working with for areas that will be seen.

All info will be reported as I have it.
I am coming into the warm months here in NY and will be spraying on a regular basis soon.

Microbusdeluxe Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:30 pm

Inspired by this excellent multi-part series on applying Lizard Skin, I now give you a first timer's experience of the job.

The weather finally warmed up, so I began on the project. The first decision I made was to NOT use the spray product inside my front doors. It just seemed too scary with all of the mechanical items in there. So I punted and used the tried and true Q-pads, and replaced the factory vapor barrier with VB-2. See the "insulating and sound dampening inside the front door" post for details on that.

The next phase was the front cabin. I removed the seats and carpet & center heat tunnel along with the emergency brake handle. Biggest caution I can give you here is to carefully and completely tape all around your carpet BEFORE you remove it so that you can protect visible areas from overspray.

I cleverly placed small pieces of tape at the carpets edge, telling myself I'd remember where everything was and then I'd tape pieces of newspaper along these lines. Well after working through masking off areas (a PIA job) I managed to miss one spot under the dash at the driver's feet. It was only while spraying the first coat that I noticed a couple of scraps of tape marking the painted edge that was supposed to be masked off . Dooh!

Luckily the Sound Control wipes off fairly easily when it's wet, and only takes a bit of scrubbing when partially dry. My first coat I applied very lightly, just getting the feel for the spray gun. After it dried, I applied the second coat a bit more heavily. Then I finally shot a third coat. Things were still a bit damp so I'm waiting til tomorrow to check everything and to see if more coats are needed.

I didn't have any luck figuring out how to use the pretty cheesy mil gauge that come with the Lizard skin spray gun. All in all I used about 2 cups worth of material for this section. Anyone who is experienced with the system can chime in to tell me if this sounds right or if I should add some more. I'll put the ceramic insulation on top of this once I'm sure that I have enough sound control applied.

I will say that spraying it was easier and actually more fun that I was expecting. Masking off everything was a bigger PIA, so I guess it all balanced out.


Photo above shows first coat lightly applied.

Second coat

Second coat, nubs are old carpet glue.

Third coat. Blobs and runs from gun too close.



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