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  View original topic: Lizard Skin Sprayable Sound Deadener and Thermal Insulation Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
insyncro Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:40 am

1621 wrote: Hopefully someone with a scientific background can enlighten me, but the ceramic paint blocking heat phenomenon seems 'too good to be true'. How does a layer of paint with 'ceramic microspheres', applied to the thickness of a credit card, reduce heat transfer? It just doesn't seem credible. You'd think this stuff would be a huge sensation and have independent studies to support the claims. I've seen little besides some forum posts and an ice cube video which doesn't necessarily 'prove' anything.

1. Are there any independent studies available?
2. What type of heat transfer is it blocking? Radiant, Convection, Conduction?
3. How does it work?

I just thinking that's a lot of money for a product with no research data outside of the manufacturer's claims and some anecdotal stories of success on the Internet. It reminds me of the vortex thing you put on your intake that increases mileage AND horsepower by 30%!

So please help me to understand how laying a coat of ceramic paint makes a difference in heat transfer. I really want something like this to work, but my "spidey-senses" are tingling.

I would do a little research Mr Vortex. :wink:
Google terms like radiant barrier, thermal barrier and add sprayed if you like.

These techniques and products are being used everyday in home construction, new automobile assembly and industrial coatings are making their way into restoration projects around the world.

As "cost" seems to be the hangup for a few and that is out of my hands, I am going to stick to showing these products being applied and a few tricks for a very clean install.

bluefirefly Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:51 am

insyncro wrote: I am going to stick to showing these products being applied and a few tricks for a very clean install.

Thanks a lot Dylan, I'll be watching to be able to do our van in the summer... hopefully!

sanchius Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:40 am

Wow, thanks for sharing your professional experience and responding to the numerous questions, Dylan.

It takes a lot of personal time to do this, with little gain other than to your already solid reputation here.

It's people like you that make this such a great community.

Again, thanks so much!

insyncro Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:45 am

Thank you.
Much more to come.

Gunldesnapper Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:50 am

This is why i love this forum, thanks insyncro!

SyncroScott Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:00 am

Thanks Dylan! The timing couldn't be better as I have been looking into sound deadening materials for my van now that the mechanicals and whatnot are finally wrapping up.

Got a couple questions of my own:

-Do you have any pictures of it already applied (or links to other threads that might?)

-Am I to understand that you put the SC down and then can put a truck-bed-liner-type material over top of it? Say on the interior floor?

-Does it take a beefier compressor output to spray this stuff out than paint or other thinner liquids?

-Does it run/sag much when sprayed on vertical surfaces at the warmer temps you suggest?

-In your restorations that you use this stuff on, how extensively do you use it: EVERY nook and cranny that you can get it on to, or just strategic large surfaces that are big contributors of making our vans sound like the interior of a bass drum?

Thanks a lot for the great product recommendation and write-up!
-Scott

rmcd Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:56 pm

1621 wrote: Hopefully someone with a scientific background can enlighten me, but the ceramic paint blocking heat phenomenon seems 'too good to be true'. How does a layer of paint with 'ceramic microspheres', applied to the thickness of a credit card, reduce heat transfer? It just doesn't seem credible. You'd think this stuff would be a huge sensation and have independent studies to support the claims. I've seen little besides some forum posts and an ice cube video which doesn't necessarily 'prove' anything.

1. Are there any independent studies available?
2. What type of heat transfer is it blocking? Radiant, Convection, Conduction?
3. How does it work?

I just thinking that's a lot of money for a product with no research data outside of the manufacturer's claims and some anecdotal stories of success on the Internet. It reminds me of the vortex thing you put on your intake that increases mileage AND horsepower by 30%!

So please help me to understand how laying a coat of ceramic paint makes a difference in heat transfer. I really want something like this to work, but my "spidey-senses" are tingling.

Well I'm not a thermodynamic nor do I play one one tv, but I can point to an example I've always found curious. Sink manufactures coat the bottom of stainless steel sinks with thin black paint-like material. I re call the How It's Made tv show said it was to They to hold the water heat longer. Maybe some could test this with a pan of hot water? Measure time and temp. Paint the panand measure time and temp again? Good luck with ur spouse after they discover you painted their pans.

badassdubs Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:32 pm

SyncroScott wrote: Thanks Dylan! The timing couldn't be better as I have been looking into sound deadening materials for my van now that the mechanicals and whatnot are finally wrapping up.

Got a couple questions of my own:

-Do you have any pictures of it already applied (or links to other threads that might?)

-Am I to understand that you put the SC down and then can put a truck-bed-liner-type material over top of it? Say on the interior floor?

-Does it take a beefier compressor output to spray this stuff out than paint or other thinner liquids?

-Does it run/sag much when sprayed on vertical surfaces at the warmer temps you suggest?

-In your restorations that you use this stuff on, how extensively do you use it: EVERY nook and cranny that you can get it on to, or just strategic large surfaces that are big contributors of making our vans sound like the interior of a bass drum?

Thanks a lot for the great product recommendation and write-up!
-Scott


Here is my post. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...;start=80.

I used 3 1/2 gallons. Plan on this taking most of your day.

These should answer all of your questions. This is what I used to determine
if this product is what I wanted to use

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&a...in+youtube

insyncro Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:00 pm

Thanks BadAss :wink:

The above "reserved" spaces are to show one van from start to finish.

I will update the thread as quickly as possible for all to enjoy.

insyncro Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:45 pm

This thread will have before and after Lizard Skin application photos featuring the inner seam prep, rust encapsulator spraying and the bedliner....plus all the mechanical upgrades that follow the coatings.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=572864

Enjoy

dobryan Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:57 pm

Thank you! :D

Merian Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:16 pm

the ceramic microspheres create small air spaces which help insulate and the ceramic itself has low conductivity

you are right to think that a thin layer doesn't do much; it does do some

dobryan Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:18 pm

Sorry, posted to wrong thread. :oops:

badassdubs Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:06 pm

insyncro wrote: Thanks BadAss :wink:

The above "reserved" spaces are to show one van from start to finish.

I will update the thread as quickly as possible for all to enjoy.

No problem. If I didn't think it was a good product, I wouldn't have posted.

insyncro Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:14 pm

badassdubs wrote: insyncro wrote: Thanks BadAss :wink:

The above "reserved" spaces are to show one van from start to finish.

I will update the thread as quickly as possible for all to enjoy.

No problem. If I didn't think it was a good product, I wouldn't have posted.

I am trying to share so more can join in and I appreciate you posting your experience :!:
The stuff is the bomb.
I will be building it much thicker than you did, but same outcome, no more tinny sounding van :wink:

BTW, you do amazing work.

SyncroScott Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:28 am

Thanks Badass and Dylan for the info, links, pics, and updates!

61Scout Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:55 am

What I'm wondering about are the long term factors concerning many of these coatings. Are there any off-gassing/health factors involved? Has any one had to do any extensive body work after the application? And if so, does it make the body work significantly more difficult?

Not to stir the pot (and not that anyone is asking), but personally, I don't mind a little road noise, to hear my engine, etc. It's all part of the experience.

-Kevin

Merian Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:17 pm

for the old timey asphaltic stick-on stuff - definitely yes

materials used in new cars should be fairly safe, tho there is always outgassing from any plastic

that will be a greater problem in a house than a car - do you have any vinyl windows in your house?

I'd be more worried about getting solvents, carrier, and used oil on your skin or via the membranes in the eyes or via inhalation during numerous DIYing over the years

products that use nano-particles could release them and they would then enter deep into your lungs, etc. - adverse effects are not known because they have not been studied

madspaniard Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:22 pm

that info should be in the material safety data sheet (MSDS)

Merian Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:43 pm

novel chemicals and products are not tested very well (in the US) before being put on the market

the Europeans are more careful - e.g. several common household cleaners sold in the US are prohibited in Europe

the MSDS will reflect acute effects to some extent

I would definitely look at the MSDS before using anything



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