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  View original topic: Lizard Skin Sprayable Sound Deadener and Thermal Insulation Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
vers13 Thu May 22, 2014 12:14 pm

Dry ice really helps to harden the stock insulation, then, just scrape away.

GreggK Sat May 31, 2014 9:38 pm

Hello,Im using your post (Dylan) as a guide to how I am doing my interior. Ive got the interior of my van from the rear of the front seats back, mostly down to the bare metal. All the panels off. There are some spots of original primer and paint showing. The surface is pretty smooth. I will be applying POR15 to some of the seams as well. Having so much bare metal should I use an automotive primer before applying Lizardskin sound control or just rough up the metal and apply the Lizardskin? Also.. will you be covering the floor of the van with the Lizardskin before the monstaliner? Thanks so much for this detailed post. GreggK

insyncro Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:20 am

Hi Greg.
I am a huge fan of epoxy primer.
Bare metal should be sealed first, my opinion.
Magnet Paints makes a two part epoxy primer in silver that I recommend for applying to all bare spots.
It can be sprayed or rolled on.
Just lightly scuff it before the Lizard SC.

On the vans I am currently working on, the horizontal surfaces get epoxy primer, Lizard SC and than 2 part sprayed bedliner (Rhino Pro) for the strongest surface possible.

nmerrill Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:24 am

I'm currently debating what I want to do to finish the space above the syncro fuel tank...
I'm doing an epoxy primer fist, but can't decide between shooting monstaliner, or maybe Lizardskin.

I know I've read some mentions of this in various posts, but I can't seem to dredge them up...

I wonder what your current thoughts on this are?

insyncro Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:45 am

For exterior application I would use bedliner.
Having Lizard on the interior and bedliner on the exterior is how I am currently finishing two restorations.

This combo provides great protection and excellent sound deadening.

Poly urea products (bedliners) can be applied over the Lizard as well.
Please check with each manufacturer and read each MSDS carefully if you plan to do so.
Rhino Pro adheres to Lizard extremely well.
That is the combo I use.
Both products are sprayed.
I have no experience with rolling these products over eachother as I own the very expensive spray tools that provide a much better finish texture, my opinion.

nmerrill Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:05 am

That is where I was leaning - Bed liner outside, Lizard in. Not sure there would be any benefit to putting both outside layered.

I'll definitely be spraying the liner - can't imagine getting good coverage in all the folds and crannies with a roller.

Thanks

Nat

shizzon Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:10 pm

A question for those who have applied lizard skin SC + CI --

Do you think it's necessary or advisable to add any other form of sound deadening on top of this? There's so much room in those panels, and I'm tempted to do something crazy like add some more insulation and a layer of mass loaded vinyl while I have all of the cabinetry and everything pulled out!

insyncro Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:24 am

shizzon wrote: A question for those who have applied lizard skin SC + CI --

Do you think it's necessary or advisable to add any other form of sound deadening on top of this? There's so much room in those panels, and I'm tempted to do something crazy like add some more insulation and a layer of mass loaded vinyl while I have all of the cabinetry and everything pulled out!

http://www.roxul.com/

shizzon Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:11 am

Hmm... I see alot of different things on that roxul site... What am I looking for?

just the insulation?

shizzon Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:26 am

ok, after some searching, it looks like folks use this.

http://www.roxul.com/products/residential/roxul+safe%27n%27sound

sounds like an interesting product

Do you just stuff it in there, or does it require an adhesive? I assume it's still wise to leave it a few inches suspended from the bottom?

insyncro Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:34 am

Personally, I am using Comfort Board, cut to fit perfectly, not stuffed.
No adhesive, just a perfectly cut size to stay put and is easily removal able if ever needed.

For smaller and tighter areas.
Karl Mulendore posted another spun fiber insulation years ago.
It falls under "green" building products and comes in bats.
Many have made "bags" of it covered by a breathable fabric, like a pillow, to place inside the small or weird shaped cavities.

I will be adding to this thread shortly as the pictured van is now under construction.

The sound deadening other than Lizard Skin is a two part, sprayed industrial coating used in commercial applications.
It is poly urea based like truck bed liners.
Very durable, high build is easy, works with bedliners, Lizard Skin and other spray on products.

Stay tuned.

shizzon Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:57 am

insyncro wrote: Personally, I am using Comfort Board, cut to fit perfectly, not stuffed.
No adhesive, just a perfectly cut size to stay put and is easily removal able if ever needed.

For smaller and tighter areas.
Karl Mulendore posted another spun fiber insulation years ago.
It falls under "green" building products and comes in bats.
Many have made "bags" of it covered by a breathable fabric, like a pillow, to place inside the small or weird shaped cavities.

I will be adding to this thread shortly as the pictured van is now under construction.

The sound deadening other than Lizard Skin is a two part, sprayed industrial coating used in commercial applications.
It is poly urea based like truck bed liners.
Very durable, high build is easy, works with bedliners, Lizard Skin and other spray on products.

Stay tuned.

I WILL stay tuned! I'm hoping to start my lizard skin install this weekend, and want to get everything put back together soon'ish. I may just go with the roxul for now.

Another possibility is something like this

http://www.lobucrod.com

shizzon Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:22 pm

I just got done spraying on Lizardskin CI on top of the previous coat of Lizardskin SC last night. So far so good!

I did have problems with the CI clogging my Lizardskin spray gun (the one lizardskin sells) though. I'm pretty sure that it was because there was a "crust" on top of the CI that I stupidly mixed in with the paddle before use. Those pieces of crust were dispersed throughout the material and ended up clogging the gun. PITA! Just wanted to share this so that hopefully others won't be as stupid as I was! If you see crust, skim it off before mixing the product up with the paddle!!!

Oh yeah, for reference for others -- I sprayed everything rearward of the front seats (all doors, panels), and I used 4 gal SC and 2 gal CI.

insyncro Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:57 am

As the product see air, it will firm up and it really sticks well.
Every time I refill the gun I clean it with water.
You can submerge the pickup in a bucket of water and run it through.

Once you have experience with these waterbased products, you can thin them.
I allow drops of water to roll off my fingers into the product once in the spray hopper.
I use a small drill driven mixer to whip it up to the consistency I like.

:arrow: Adding water to the product makes it easier to spray, BUT it also will dimension the deadening qualities of the product.
Drops of water to thin, not a quarter cup or quart, drops of water.
Proper mixing is what gives the best flow :arrow:

insyncro Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:11 am

I am working with one of the major manufacturers of sprayable barriers.
Here is a new product, sound deadener, thermal barrier and is tintable.
Shown here in its original no tinted color...grey.



I have also been working to dial in different textures for different applications.
The floor and upper engine bay of this van will receive a final topcoat of poly urea, or truck bed liner.
The barriers have been spray first and the two part poly urea will be sprayed over top to give a very durable finish, in black, without any added texture.

Knowing flash, drying and curing times are a necessity when layering up different products.

I test all layering before shooting any products onto a vehicle.

Here is the tintable product over Lizard Skin:


luVWagn Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:21 am

If the new product is sound+thermal, why layer it over lizard? Could it be used directly?

insyncro Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:27 am

luVWagn wrote: If the new product is sound+thermal, why layer it over lizard? Could it be used directly?

I am working with different manufacturers and testing adhesion of different products used together.

If you want to just use one, by all means.
My experience shows that (1) product does not do as good of a job across the board.
It may be a good sound deadener, but not be a good thermal barrier, and or is not strong enough to be used in high traffic areas.

The minimum products, layers, I shoot is (3), to get the results I want and my clients want.

1vw4x4 Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:33 am

This IMHO is "all show and no go". As they use to say at the drag strip.
Spray on will miss the all important
seams that have rust in them..... Now I've heard it a million times "My
van doesn't have any rust" Only way this is true is if it was kept in a vacuum.
A POR-15 paint worked into the seams would do a much better job at stopping any potential rust. As for insulation that material is basically useless. Good insulation creates a large stagnate air mass. Don't waste
your money on this stuff.

shizzon Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:26 am

1vw4x4 wrote: This IMHO is "all show and no go". As they use to say at the drag strip.
Spray on will miss the all important
seams that have rust in them..... Now I've heard it a million times "My
van doesn't have any rust" Only way this is true is if it was kept in a vacuum.
A POR-15 paint worked into the seams would do a much better job at stopping any potential rust. As for insulation that material is basically useless. Good insulation creates a large stagnate air mass. Don't waste
your money on this stuff.

Actually, if you read back on this thread, the OP has already treated rust affected areas with POR15 or equivalent.

Re: insulation -- the lizardskin ceramic insulation is impressive, and I'm speaking from personal experience. I just sprayed it earlier this week. After a long drive, my rear engine hatch is barely noticeably warmer than the surrounding areas. ...Not to say some additional insulation wouldn't be helpful on top of the CI though...

As they say, "an ounce of empirical data is worth a pound of theoretical speculation!"

insyncro Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:14 am

Thanks Shiz.

Spray products and procedures are common placed in the home building industry and automobile manufacturing industry.

I choose to stay up to date with new products, materials and techniques.

Others are caught in the past and do not have any experience with what is being shown here.
They lack the tools, trials and forward thinking to comprehend "total encapsulation" as a way of preserving vehicles.

This process is new to the Vanagon World, but has been used in other niche restoration projects around the world for at least two decades.



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