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Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:42 pm

But unless you're encasing your fuel pump in some kind of locked box, all you need in order to bypass that is a short wire to go from the ground spade on the pump to the chassis nearby, as that is the normal ground connection for that fuel pump. Even with a box, there's always the wires coming out of it anyway. Just grab the one and ground it.

Probably still useful against the most common spur-of-the moment thieves, but noone who might expect this kind of protection, and who might also know the location of the pump. Probably good enough for the junkies I guess.

Seems like the easiest to setup is also the easiest to defeat. Interrupting the 12V supply would be harder to circumvent, although the solution to that isn't far...

Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:48 pm

i think the whole point with any kill switch is the thief don't know what kind of deterrent you have. it could be connect to the fuel pump, starter, coil, etc or all of the above. same as gps unit too and kill switch shouldn't be your only deterrent, pedal lock, gps, tracker, etc.

Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:50 pm

jimf909 wrote: candyman wrote: Andrew A. Libby wrote:

...and Terry should cover up a little, his stupid is showing and no one wants to see that... :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry to qoute this from a 3 year old thread BUT thats the funniest thing Ive read in a long time! Especially now that TK is finally banned

Poetic justice i suppose

Anyways just reading through this as I want to add a kill switch after reading about another (Levi) van theft. Its getting ridiculous

Holy cow! I hadn't realized he was banned. I'll miss his crazy a bit but I won't miss the rest of him.

A concise line that perfectly describes how I feel about it, well done !

Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:19 pm

Andrew A. Libby wrote: The actual flow of electrons is FROM the negative battery post, TO the positive post... :D

...and Terry should cover up a little, his stupid is showing and no one wants to see that... :shock:

I'm surprised no one called out the holes in this theory...

Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:02 pm

levi wrote: jimf909 wrote: candyman wrote: Andrew A. Libby wrote:

...and Terry should cover up a little, his stupid is showing and no one wants to see that... :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry to qoute this from a 3 year old thread BUT thats the funniest thing Ive read in a long time! Especially now that TK is finally banned

Poetic justice i suppose

Anyways just reading through this as I want to add a kill switch after reading about another (Levi) van theft. Its getting ridiculous

Holy cow! I hadn't realized he was banned. I'll miss his crazy a bit but I won't miss the rest of him.

A concise line that perfectly describes how I feel about it, well done !

Whoah, what? When did Terry get banned? I feel like I must've missed out on a good opportunity for popcorn.

Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:30 pm

The beginning of this thread made me chuckle. The "hole" concept was always a bit strange for me to visualize.

In an automatic, there is a neutral safety switch that won't allow the van to start in gear. It would be easy to interrupt that circuit with a hidden (or plain in sight) switch to prevent starting. It is also low current so no worries there.

Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:19 pm

PDXWesty wrote: The beginning of this thread made me chuckle. The "hole" concept was always a bit strange for me to visualize.

"Hole" concept? Couldn't find that early in the thread, but you've piqued my curiosity...

PDXWesty wrote:
In an automatic, there is a neutral safety switch that won't allow the van to start in gear. It would be easy to interrupt that circuit with a hidden (or plain in sight) switch to prevent starting. It is also low current so no worries there.

That's my plan — sticking in a hidden switch (or switch series that needs to be flipped to a specific sequence, if I get really creative and fancy) to optionally cut the NSS circuit. Got the idea from my dodgy NSS causing me to need to joggle my shifter, or start the van in neutral, to get it to contact.

Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:34 am

Electrons are just made up things that are convenient to visualize. You can describe current flowing through a wire as electrons going left to right, or holes flowing right to left. Your electrons actually flow from the negative terminal of your battery to the positive but that makes your head hurt a bit. They are quick, they move one foot in about 2 thousandth of a thousandth of a thousandth of a second.

Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:09 am

it wouldn't be hard to add a 'hot start' relay that also required the brake lights to be on to allow the starter wire to complete it's circuit to the starter.

just one more hokey-pokey for a would be hot wiring tweaker..
I'm fairly sure they wouldn't think to press the brakes while they're head is under the dash crossing wires like they learned on the TV.

Relay will only complete both circuits when
the brake lights are ON
AND
the starter is being cranked.

#30 input from key to starter solenoid.
#87 Starter solenoid
#86 Brake light wire
#85 Ground

Similar can be done with the E-brake requiring more hokey-pokey
Ebrake up, Brakes stepped on and cranking. (all needed wires are in the dash)
#30 input from key to starter solenoid.
#87 Starter solenoid
#86 Brake light wire
#85 Ground at base of E-brake

Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:24 am

timichango wrote:
"Hole" concept? Couldn't find that early in the thread, but you've piqued my curiosity...

Inside joke here.... for those electrical engineers.

Abscate wrote:
I'm surprised no one called out the holes in this theory...

Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:41 am

and to have more fun in the engine compartment for easy and cheap theft preventative measures.
utilizing an 87-87a type relay.. one that has 2 output terminals one normally open, one normally closed. (this won't work with a relay with 2 87 terminals.
by adding a flasher relay and horn to the 87a circuit it will beep beep beep the horn if the brake lights aren't stepped on while cranking the starter over.

like this.

#30 input wire from key to starter solenoid.
#87 output wire to Starter solenoid
#87a wire to 2pole flasher relay then from flasher relay to a spare HORN then to ground
#85 Brake light wire
#86 Ground

danfromsyr wrote: it wouldn't be hard to add a 'hot start' relay that also required the brake lights to be on to allow the starter wire to complete it's circuit to the starter.

just one more hokey-pokey for a would be hot wiring tweaker..
I'm fairly sure they wouldn't think to press the brakes while they're head is under the dash crossing wires like they learned on the TV.

Relay will only complete both circuits when
the brake lights are ON
AND
the starter is being cranked.

#30 input from key to starter solenoid.
#87 Starter solenoid
#86 Brake light wire
#85 Ground

Similar can be done with the E-brake requiring more hokey-pokey
Ebrake up, Brakes stepped on and cranking. (all needed wires are in the dash)
#30 input from key to starter solenoid.
#87 Starter solenoid
#86 Brake light wire
#85 Ground at base of E-brake

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:46 am

PDXWesty wrote:
In an automatic, there is a neutral safety switch that won't allow the van to start in gear. It would be easy to interrupt that circuit with a hidden (or plain in sight) switch to prevent starting. It is also low current so no worries there.

Sorry to revive a thread, but it's an important one that, like backing up your hard drive, you always neglect until it's too late.

I was wondering why this solution hadn't come up earlier but I guess autos are just that rare. I'd be very curious what % of each year were stick vs auto. If I bought a sports car I'd def get a stick, but I am happy for the van to be an auto.
I think it'd be smart to do a momentary switch so you hold while turning the key. The fuel pump idea makes me nervous that someone would hit it while you're driving down the highway in traffic. Sucks.

rubbachicken wrote: i was also thinking about a "start" button in plain sight, and connect it to an alarm, because if there's a button that says start on it, an intruder is likely going to push that one first ;)

I had to quote this because it's the most F***ING BRILLIANT thing I've seen in months. First I LOL'd and then I wondered how I could hire rubbachicken to work for me somehow, any way, in any capacity.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:31 pm

It's been a year and I'm finally getting to this. My issue is that PDXWesty claimed the neutral safety switch in the automatic was a low-current circuit but I don't think that's accurate, based on the wiring diagram (this is for an '86, but close enough) and the fact that the wires going into the NSS are big, as you can see:

The Red/Black wires are probably pushing 6mm with insulation, which seems to match up with the "6.0" from the diagram, though it says numbers are in AWG, so that's confusing.

On the diagram it says 50A which I'm wondering if that means 50 Amps, and that it is going to wire track 5:

Now we see that wire track 5 (coming from track 16, which corresponds to the track the wire from the NSS is coming from, so that checks out) goes directly to the starter solenoid.

So if I'm understanding this right, I'm going to have to use a beefy relay for this job... so that's my question... I generally suck with electrical.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:05 pm

jwallis wrote: On the diagram it says 50A which I'm wondering if that means 50 Amps...

No, it's simply terminal number 50A. I.E., there are two terminal 50's on the switch that are connected when the shift lever is in park or neutral. The A merely indicates in the diagram that there are two #50 terminals for the two red/black wires, rather than just one. :wink:

Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:16 pm

kamzcab86 wrote: jwallis wrote: On the diagram it says 50A which I'm wondering if that means 50 Amps...

No, it's simply terminal number 50A. I.E., there are two terminal 50's on the switch that are connected when the shift lever is in park or neutral. The A merely indicates in the diagram that there are two #50 terminals for the two red/black wires, rather than just one. :wink:

Great, that makes sense, thank you. I'm going to put my 10A ammeter across it and start 'er up and see what it draws. If it indeed is really low, I'll skip the relay.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:36 pm

Finally knocked this one out, and using the NSS made it incredibly easy. The draw through the NSS was about 1.3 amps while cranking. I didn't use the most robust switch and it does seem to crank a little bit slower, but it could also be my imagination.

Thank you to kamzcab86 and PDXWesty, I should never have doubted you ; )

Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:53 am

the size of your switch will have NO effect on cranking speeds..
you are only modifying the solenoid's power supply..
it will only crank if the solenoid is powered/engaged.. it's a plunger with heavy contacts on it's fully engaged side.
then the cranking power comes from the fat battery cable at the starter.
your switch only carries the solenoids current/amps... and well that's ~20a
**UNLESS you have a hot start relay.. then you are only carrying/interrupting the hot-start relays current/amps..

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:23 pm

After several days, it does seem to crank as normal, but my understanding is if a conductor is too small, it would be hard to get current through it, right? I don't know what the internal contact surface area inside the switch looks like. I always wonder that about switches. This is a heavier switch, but it seems like some small switches wouldn't be able to handle the current and would get hot and melt or something like that.

Tue Apr 09, 2024 12:32 pm

Apologies for digging up an old post, but I'm thinking about using the NSS for a kill switch in my 91 I'm curious jwallis if you've kept the switch there and how you feel about it long term. How beefy of a switch did you end up going with, and would you recommend it? Thanks.

Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:44 pm

I was wrong above. The reason I was only seeing around 1A through my NSS is because the previous owner installed a hard start relay in my van.

Without that it would be more like 12-15A potentially.

I recommend HS relays to everyone, and the kit from www.uniwerksdesign.com is the best

The problem with this solution is that I would always go out to the van and notice that I had forgotten to re-enable the kill switch. I actually now sell a security system for the Vanagon, but it isn't remotely profitable so I only have a couple units left. This is the circuit I recommend to people:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9804944

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20