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Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:21 pm

I have been restoring a 78 CEII Westy, Rebuilt the engine and repaired,replaced all the jury-rigs and problems in the engine compartment I inhered from the PO. I could only get it to run on the cold start valve. I went through every check using the manuals and the info online., even though I had bench tested every component prior to reassembly. Could not get it to run. I made an appointment to have Collin aka Amskeptic and bail me out.
In his words from a post on his his site:
Mojogoat has a '78 Champagne Westy and a beautifully stocked garage. More beautiful was his engine, over-built to a level of detail that about paralyzed me. Every wire, every clamp, totally dressed with wire ties and protectors, all painted and detailed to a magnificent level. Yet, the engine would only run if we energized the cold start valve. Jumped right in to diagnose. I am all cocky. The most difficult fuel injection diagnosis and repair was Soulful66's engine many years ago, where it took me four hours to track down a no-start to a little connector in the ECU plug that had been pushed out and prevented the injectors from grounding.

Do you think I checked injector grounding? Sure did. Damn things had voltage, were grounding too. We did everything. We had spark, well-timed, we had air, we had no vacuum leaks, we had continuity throughout his personally taped fuel injection wiring harness, we had lovely fuel pressure. I was running out of diagnostic options pretty quick, Mr. Cocky here was getting decidedly less cocky. Swapped the AFM with another one, swapped the ECU with two other ones, and we all know that parts swapping is just an indication of a mechanic losing his way. Finally, I am focused on the following fact:
It runs on the cold start valve.
It does not run on the injectors. It has to be the injectors.
"I shipped them to Cruzin Performance, they reconditioned them."
We have voltage to the injectors, we have pulsed grounding at the ECU.
I powered one of the injectors with the ignition on/ engine off to look for a fuel pressure drop on the gauge (that is how you can check for injector operation without tearing apart an engine that has been bolted and tied and glued together). No pressure drop!
We decided to swap in some old injectors on the left side. Well. Now the engine runs on two cylinders.
We swap in two more old injectors.
Engine runs. It is 5:00PM.
Moral Of The Story: "new" or "re-conditioned" does NOT mean you can skip them while diagnosing. None of his Cruzin injectors worked. His old injectors all had a nice spray pattern.

Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:33 pm

Kudos to both you and Colin for a job well done.

Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:45 pm

Funny, I've been saying to myself for months, "the injectors aren't working" "why?" It turned out to be the most obvious, the injectors don't work.

Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:12 pm

I find that odd.....if not impossible. Cruizin and which hunter and other injector refurb houses will check operation before refurb....because the injector must becable to cycle electrically to be operated in the ultrasonic cleaning unit.

What make more sense is that you had the wrong injectors, wrong impedance injectors or injectors whose male pins had poor connection with your female plug connectors.
In that case I would check your plugs because they had to plug in and work for cruizin if they were able to refjrb them. Ray

Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:51 pm

Way to go DR. Colin.

Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:09 pm

Who knows, the PO had converted it back from carbs, quite a mess, he ordered and installed a 79 long block in a 78 the whole FI system and exhaust was a mess of miss matched and missing parts, duct tape and wire. I gutted the engine compartment and started over from scratch, replaced and rewired everything back to stock configuration with new and correct parts. May of had some of the 79 FI system installed in this 78, as I seem to have a bunch of 79 parts in my spares stash. I probably sent the original injectors from the mess, 79? thinking they were 78 injectors in for refurb.

Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:40 pm

mojogoat wrote: Who knows, the PO had converted it back from carbs, quite a mess, he ordered and installed a 79 long block in a 78 the whole FI system and exhaust was a mess of miss matched and missing parts, duct tape and wire. I gutted the engine compartment and started over from scratch, replaced and rewired everything back to stock configuration with new and correct parts. May of had some of the 79 FI system installed in this 78, as I seem to have a bunch of 79 parts in my spares stash. I probably sent the original injectors from the mess, 79? thinking they were 78 injectors in for refurb.

Ahhhh - 79 injector has a ballast build into it. 78 and earlier uses a ballast resistor. Also the CA double relay is different.

Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:43 pm

Yep.....it sounded like an impedance problem. Dont throw those refurbed injectors away. As SGKent noted they may be fine for another aysyem built for them. Sell them and send yours out to cruizen for refurb. Ray

Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:02 am

Sounds like a beautiful motor and engine room!

Pics of this piece of art would be appreciated by most of us.
lets have a look at this.....

Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:14 am

SGKent wrote:
Ahhhh - 79 injector has a ballast build into it. 78 and earlier uses a ballast resistor. Also the CA double relay is different.

Actually the 79 Federal is the same as all of the other Federals. The 79CA set up (that has no series resister) does it inside the ECU.

Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:25 am

Did you try to bench test one of the injectors that you pulled yet?