TheSamba.com :: View topic - Beetles with Multi-Colored body parts

Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:48 pm

Why did VW sometimes paint bolt on body parts more than once and why?

Randy Carlsons Beetle as bought in 2011 with original paint...

silvertonguedevil 's (Greg's) '65 currently being discussed in these forums. derluftwagen also noticed the color of the left front fender...

This is a strange anomaly that I've observed for some time. I have discussed this before with a friend who has been a bodyman since the early 70's, and he say's he has seen dozen's of Beetles with similar mis-colored body parts. His theory is that since all the parts he had seen were dark colors, the reason is they were not straight enough to put on a dark car, so they put them on a color that doesn't show waves as much. He currently owns a Diamond Green '58 who's hood is another color under the original paint. His Father had a '71 Marathon/Baja Beetle with a drivers door that was orange under the blue metallic, so it covers a span of years that they did this.
I have no pictures of it but a '67 I once owned had a decklid that was first VW Blue followed by sealer, then Java Green followed by sealer, then finally Savanna Beige as was the car it was on. What was cool was this was exposed under the decklid because the PCV hose had rubbed through the paint from vibration, and you could see the different colors all laid out like it had been carefully sanded.
If you have any thoughts or theory's on the topic, or better have some picture examples to post, please add them.

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:35 pm

Here's mine: perhaps these parts were damaged at the factory (Fritz with a screwdriver in is his pocke, etc...), pulled off the matching car- and slight bodywork performed and following paint sent right back into the parts mix? Makes sense for the cost of total strip and repaint.

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:50 pm

Yeah, you never know what happens at dealerships. When I worked at a Honda dealer, I remember having to swap a decklid out due to a flaw in the paint... Same color car, just different option packages... Whatever it takes to make the sale.

Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:52 am

61SNRF wrote: Why did VW sometimes paint bolt on body parts more than once and why?

Randy Carlsons Beetle as bought in 2011 with original paint...

silvertonguedevil 's (Greg's) '65 currently being discussed in these forums. derluftwagen also noticed the color of the left front fender...

VW factory did not do this.

Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:15 am

bill may wrote: 61SNRF wrote: Why did VW sometimes paint bolt on body parts more than once and why?

VW factory did not do this.
And how do you know that bill?

These parts are all covered with the factory sealer between coats as original. They are all uniform in their color and thickness of application.

Are you saying every one of them was done at the same body shop with the same color primer with the same equipment and technique?

These all original cars with their all original parts could and can be found all over the country and the World too I imagine.

So, if it was not done at the factory, then where was it done? State your theory please...

Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:58 am

bill may wrote: VW factory did not do this.
bill said it so it has to be the truth. he gets crabbier when you ask him to back it up :wink:

Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:23 am

I am also pretty sure the factory didnt do that. But...You have to remember at dealerships, They had the whole plan where if you smashed up a part, they would fix it for you. Obviously they had factory paint on hand, so they would paint it factory color.

Here is another example. My cousin's old 63. OG paint. YOu can see the red under the OG paint

It seems that the paint changes occurred long ago when the paint was fresh. So everything patina ed exposing the other color under the dealership paint

Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:42 am

61SNRF wrote: bill may wrote: 61SNRF wrote: Why did VW sometimes paint bolt on body parts more than once and why?

VW factory did not do this.
And how do you know that bill?

These parts are all covered with the factory sealer between coats as original. They are all uniform in their color and thickness of application.

Are you saying every one of them was done at the same body shop with the same color primer with the same equipment and technique?

These all original cars with their all original parts could and can be found all over the country and the World too I imagine.

So, if it was not done at the factory, then where was it done? State your theory please...
_____________________________________________________________ How do you know if it's factory applied sealer? The VW dealership where I worked had a body shop and this kind of thing happened all the time-just ask Bill. Now this primer which is what we are looking at could be bought a any body shop supply store, and the dealer I worked for bought their paint supplies from such a store, however when I painted my 65 111 in 1973 I bought all my paint and sealing and sanding primer through the VW dealer that I worked for with factory paint. The cans were blue and white stamped like all the parts boxes etc. This was too expensive for our dealer to do.
This type of installing parts from another wrecked car was so common as the cars started to age and more and more accidents happened.. it was cheaper to buy a used fender instead of a new one.

D.

Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:37 pm

Can anyone explain why I had a '67 decklid that had been painted not twice but three times then?

I don't believe for a minute that every example out there happened in a dealer body shop. My information authority states that he has never found any evidence that the parts were body worked or repaired in anyway except for the repaint. Maybe it was done in a special facility on the assembly line, but done at the factory none the less.

BTW there are other people in the World that know as much or more about VW's than bill may :wink:

Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:52 pm

61SNRF wrote: BTW there are other people in the World that know as much or more about VW's than bill may :wink:

oh no he didn't....

Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:13 pm

61SNRF wrote: Can anyone explain why I had a '67 decklid that had been painted not twice but three times then?

I don't believe for a minute that every example out there happened in a dealer body shop. My information authority states that he has never found any evidence that the parts were body worked or repaired in anyway except for the repaint. Maybe it was done in a special facility on the assembly line, but done at the factory none the less.

BTW there are other people in the World that know as much or more about VW's than bill may :wink:

Okay. Who knows? Maybe the first car it was on was totaled. Then the second. But the decklid was never hit. Then painted in your color. Makes for a good story :)

Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:52 pm

61SNRF wrote: Can anyone explain why I had a '67 decklid that had been painted not twice but three times then?

I don't believe for a minute that every example out there happened in a dealer body shop. My information authority states that he has never found any evidence that the parts were body worked or repaired in anyway except for the repaint. Maybe it was done in a special facility on the assembly line, but done at the factory none the less.

BTW there are other people in the World that know as much or more about VW's than bill may :wink:
_____________________________________________________________

There is a old saying out there which goes like; "Only true brave mess with big chief"---lets not get Bill pissed!
OK, another way of explaining it; A car is totaled in the front end, the dismantlers descend on the car taking a perfect deck lid, rear fenders, bumper, glass, interior, engine, transaxle etc. Now I need a deck lid so I buy the part off the dismantler and it is perfect except wrong color, I prime it and paint it. Ten years or so later someone decides to paint the car and sands down past the paint, primer into the original paint.

The only factory information I have regarding paint was if there was a flaw in the paint, the entire car body went through the paint process again.

Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:30 pm

There's no way these came from the factory like that. It would never have passed the quality control inspection, and to top it off I cannot even imagine any scenario that would have led to the installation of mismatched parts. If a red bug were damaged on the assembly line (tough to imagine), they would have installed red replacement parts.
What you gave there is a repair job from long, long ago. Nothing more.

Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:06 pm

I doubt a 40+ year old car would have body parts replaced;its not like they bolt on...

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:15 pm

61SNRF wrote: Can anyone explain why I had a '67 decklid that had been painted not twice but three times then?

I don't believe for a minute that every example out there happened in a dealer body shop. My information authority states that he has never found any evidence that the parts were body worked or repaired in anyway except for the repaint. Maybe it was done in a special facility on the assembly line, but done at the factory none the less.

BTW there are other people in the World that know as much or more about VW's than bill may :wink:
i agree,you are one that knows more than i do. now research on samba about how beetles were painted at the factory.what happened after dip coating of primer as you call it. how many coats of paint were done at factory? how was the final coat applied.??? i know that you already know the answers because you know more than i do. i did not say "was repainted at a dealership body shop. i did not say parts were body worked prior to what was applied over e-coat oops i remember you call it primer not e-coat. you are one that knows more about beetles than i do. now what are the answers to my questions? no fair looking up or searching for the answers as you should be able to answer from memory as i do.

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:18 pm

61SNRF wrote: Can anyone explain why I had a '67 decklid that had been painted not twice but three times then?

:wink:
you are the original owner of this 1967????? i had a 67 decklid with more than 3 coats of paint as all beetles had more than 3 coats of paint.

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:22 pm

Helfen wrote: 61SNRF wrote: Can anyone explain why I had a '67 decklid that had been painted not twice but three times then?

I don't believe for a minute that every example out there happened in a dealer body shop. My information authority states that he has never found any evidence that the parts were body worked or repaired in anyway except for the repaint. Maybe it was done in a special facility on the assembly line, but done at the factory none the less.

BTW there are other people in the World that know as much or more about VW's than bill may :wink:
_____________________________________________________________

There is a old saying out there which goes like; "Only true brave mess with big chief"---lets not get Bill pissed!
OK, another way of explaining it; A car is totaled in the front end, the dismantlers descend on the car taking a perfect deck lid, rear fenders, bumper, glass, interior, engine, transaxle etc. Now I need a deck lid so I buy the part off the dismantler and it is perfect except wrong color, I prime it and paint it. Ten years or so later someone decides to paint the car and sands down past the paint, primer into the original paint.

The only factory information I have regarding paint was if there was a flaw in the paint, the entire car body went through the paint process again.
i am willing to learn something anytime. try using paint stripper on each layer of paint on a supposedly original paint part. non factory will always strip easier than the original E-coat and the yet unanswered amount of paint applied on assy line. i am not pissed,but rather disappointed in no back up of info as i always try to back up my statements.

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:24 pm

60ragtop wrote: bill may wrote: VW factory did not do this.
bill said it so it has to be the truth. he gets crabbier when you ask him to back it up :wink:
no i don't,i am consistant on being crabby. :D

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:58 pm

webberjames95 wrote: I am also pretty sure the factory didnt do that. But...You have to remember at dealerships, They had the whole plan where if you smashed up a part, they would fix it for you. Obviously they had factory paint on hand, so they would paint it factory color.

Here is another example. My cousin's old 63. OG paint. YOu can see the red under the OG paint

It seems that the paint changes occurred long ago when the paint was fresh. So everything patina ed exposing the other color under the dealership paint

Like James said, both passenger fenders on my old 63 had factory VW pearl White over factory vw paint. The RR was Ruby Red and the RF was anthracite. Dumb rear fender cracked too :lol:

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:26 pm

bill may wrote: 61SNRF wrote: Can anyone explain why I had a '67 decklid that had been painted not twice but three times then?

I don't believe for a minute that every example out there happened in a dealer body shop. My information authority states that he has never found any evidence that the parts were body worked or repaired in anyway except for the repaint. Maybe it was done in a special facility on the assembly line, but done at the factory none the less.

BTW there are other people in the World that know as much or more about VW's than bill may :wink:
i agree,you are one that knows more than i do.
I never claimed to be those other people bill, but, they do exist.
If you where halfway humble, you would admit that you don't know it all either. Please give me a break.

To continue the topic...
Every example I have seen were light colors or Red over dark colors. Savanna Biege or Ruby Red over the dark Blues or Java Green. I have also seen Fontana Grey over black on an all original '65 right front fender. My friends '58 hood has Agave green under his original paint Light Beige. He says it has never been off, the original paint is sealing the bolts.
So, if this anomaly was the result of dealer or body shop swapping, then why are there no examples with Black over Savanna Biege, or no examples of Ruby Red over Bahama Blue etc?

If they were from a body shop then there is a good chance there might be red oxide or blue green primer instead of gray, yes? Never seen that on these original paint examples I have personally witnessed, only consistent thickness and applications of gray sealer primer (call it what you will bill) between factory color coats.
Also, why is there no evidence that the part was bumped, metal worked or filled?

Unfortunatly, Oldbug has sold the '66 in the picture above. It would be very revealing if we could look at the hood hinges to see if they have factory applied paint over the bolts. If the paint was undisturbed, then that might be rather conclusive that it was factory done because that part was never removed. You can also clearly see in his example that the topcoat is equally faded and weathered over the entire car, like it was that way since day one. This is how every sample we can find today looks. They were not all done in the cars first year on the road.

Of course few people noticed this when the cars were new, it took years of fading and weathering or wear for it to show up.

What we need here are the old, retired VW assembly line workers who can say without fear of pissing off other people what really happened :lol: