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moxnix Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:26 pm

Dear new bus owner, with respect but not holding back.

If you plan to "pimp" this solid old bus that is fine, it's your call, but don't post pics of the carnage here please.

Many of us here one would rather not have to witness another one go down the tubes in the name of "modernization" or making it "your own" and ultimately get sold off in a year or two.

FWIW I've been driving buses since I was 16 in 1989 and I FULLY regret most of the atrocities I committed against my first bus. Don't do it.

endle Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:50 pm

moxnix wrote: Dear new bus owner, with respect but not holding back.

If you plan to "pimp" this solid old bus that is fine, it's your call, but don't post pics of the carnage here please.

Many of us here one would rather not have to witness another one go down the tubes in the name of "modernization" or making it "your own" and ultimately get sold off in a year or two.

FWIW I've been driving buses since I was 16 in 1989 and I FULLY regret most of the atrocities I committed against my first bus. Don't do it.

..umm, you do realize that the internet is not South Carolina, right? People can come and go without your permission.
Also, If you do not like it, just don't look at the pictures. Really simple mechanism for not having to see things..

blackivory69 Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:38 pm

moxnix wrote: Dear new bus owner, with respect but not holding back.

If you plan to "pimp" this solid old bus that is fine, it's your call, but don't post pics of the carnage here please.

Many of us here one would rather not have to witness another one go down the tubes in the name of "modernization" or making it "your own" and ultimately get sold off in a year or two.

FWIW I've been driving buses since I was 16 in 1989 and I FULLY regret most of the atrocities I committed against my first bus. Don't do it.
I can see the frustration of other members here but I don't think it's fair to the OP to tell not to post his pictures here. I also appreciate an all original bus, but it's not my thing. Maybe if I'm flipping it then yes, for resale value. But I bought all my buses to enjoy/use them. And I don't mind changing/adding things to my liking as long as I know it'll be safe to do so.

This is just a suggestion. And I'm not trying to offend somebody. Maybe somebody can give him an offer that he can't refuse then you can save this bus. But for me, go ahead and do what you please so you'll enjoy it. Congrats!!:)

tolstoy Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:38 pm

I........love..........that...........bus!

Wasted youth Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:49 pm

Edited

Jack_O_Trades Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:14 pm

I guess there is a fine line between offering advice and being patronizing. And it kind of feels like that line was crossed. I was a little surprised by the strong opinions of people in keeping it "stock" I guess my views, thoughts, opinions are OK as long as they agree with everyones agenda. Heaven forbid we deviate.

This is a bus that I have had my eye on for the last ten years. It's been in the family for the last 40 years and we plan to keep it that way. This vehicle has a lot of sentimental value and we are excited to bring it back to life. I hope I can maintain this sentimentality in my efforts with this project.

In my mind I envision the project ending up looking like this


Maybe that's ambitious, maybe not, at lease I have a goal in mind.

I respect the feedback and opinions of the veterans of this forum but at the end of the day my decisions and the consequences of those decisions rest on my shoulders.

I am not some 16 year old kid that has read too many magazines looking to pimp a ride. This may be my first VW but it is certainly not my first rodeo. I have a good collection of projects under my belt; and I hope to apply the skills I have picked up over the years to this new project.

I guess this may be tooting my horn but here are some projects that I finished over the last couple of years

Two first place trophy soapbox cars


Scratch built wooden clock, every piece of the clock was made from scratch including gears and screws.


1/3 scale amphibious ROV.


Moderate Jeep build with scratch built front and rear bumpers and suspension components


Scratch built 1/5 scale tracked truck



Scratch built 1/5 scale sand rail



Blanket chest wedding gift for my brother

Wasted youth Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:27 pm

Obviously, your skills and resources are wide ranging and fruitful. Probably more important is that you seem to be able to see a project to completion. All I can offer regarding critical comments regarding your plans, is that there have been so many good folks that jump in and wind up wallowing. This leads to others becoming apprehensive when the tell-tale signs and comments pop up looking like more seeds of an abandoned project.

As you might have figured, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find an 'un-molested bus', so there is value placed on these more so than a tastefully done restoration.

Hopefully, you are not soured at this point, and I wish you the best whatever you decide to do.

Jack_O_Trades Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:34 pm

I was able to get home early today and take some photos. After some moderate cleaning, clearing out all the junk, and vacuuming, this is what we have.





















Found some tools under the passenger seat. I assume the jack is OEM?



Looks like some bay window rust. I guess it is probably worse under the seal?



The spare tire carrier is bolted on, easy enough to remove and patch the holes.







I don't know the history of the motor. From the intake manifold is appears to have single port heads. For whatever reason, there was a spare dual port sitting around in the garage. Also, the intake manifold looks like it's from a later year indicated by the port just below the carburetor. I already know about the fuel filter and fuel lines. I will take care of this when I pull and clean out the gas tank.





Without knowing what to expect from a stock van vs a poorly maintained van, please give a shout out if something grabs your attention.

Thanks again for looking.

Wasted youth Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:50 pm

Well, letting the boys climb around in there pretty much seals up its future! :lol: Nice to see the OEM tool kit, obviously the trenching tool is not VW.

You'll find it pretty important to not mess around with the sunroof too much until you thoroughly clean and re-grease all the cables and adjust them. They are not very strong (in my opinion) and break easily, rendering the sunroof operation impossible under its own power. Here is a thread about that:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548239


The Dual port engine might be the one you decide to do your upgrades on, leaving that nice single port installed so you can motor around town until you decide to pull that powertrain for overhaul. Then you will always have a spare engine to change out with should it come to that.

Transmission and shifter parts are out there, I used a really good vendor for a couple of transmission parts: Long Enterprises, contact Rick at (707) 829-1169

Looks like you will not have a great loss by modifying the interior, as it has already been done to some extent. Headliner looks pretty good!

Windshield frame rot is pretty common, there are more threads about that, too. The roll formed replacement steel is available, I just replaced mine in my 1977 bus, and I did it without removing the dashboard. It looks like your skill set will easily overcome that work. Also check under the driver's floorboard for rot there, too.

busdaddy Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:58 pm

I, nor anyone else was ever bringing your skills into question that I can see (nice work BTW). I was just bringing up that you had the opportunity to join a very exclusive club with a clean OG bus like that, even more so if it's a long time family ride, German paint buffs very well and thin or missing spots can be touched up and blended. As other have said try it as it is first as you may just find it doesn't need any modifications, many here drive all over the continent with unmodified buses and strangely you rarely see any of them asking for help because it has let them down. It's a completly different story with many of the "upgraded" buses, replacement and performance parts are usually made in China and the quality is mediochre at best, there's a very fine line between relaiblity and keeping up with modern traffic, sometimes taking the slower road is the better choice anyways as you see and experience things you'd completely miss on the interstates.
It's your bus and there's nothing stopping you from doing whatever you feel you need to with it, but don't step into the project with an "everything's gotta go, I like new and shiny" attitude, VW's engineers were very skilled too and since VW sold millions of those they must have gotten it pretty close to right. A clean survivor can be just as beautiful as a restored bus, but the difference is you can't ever go back. I often get more positive comments, thumbs up's and people taking selfies with my shiny OG bus (even though it sports some door dings and scratches and scars from a life well lived) than a freshly painted "show bus" when at a show or even driving down the street. A clean deluxe is a stunning vehicle that stands out in any crowd or parking lot and you've got the added bonus of a somewhat rare color too.
Give it some thought, it's hard to go back later.

asiab3 Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:08 pm

Edit: as usual, busdaddy beat me to most of the same points, but I'll leave this here anyway...

Beautiful bus! I love seeing these cars brought out from slumber by someone who can see projects through. :)

Quote:
Without knowing what to expect from a stock van vs a poorly maintained van, please give a shout out if something grabs your attention.


I feel like this sentence sums up the animosity that some people have here against modifying a proven setup. There is surely something to be said about a 45-year-old system that I drive to work, play, and travel every day in. The factory spent decades literally making minute changes and redesigns that they KNEW would gets used and abused all over the planet. I'm going to be honest and tell you that many folks that I meet on the road and at shows have NO IDEA what a properly running air-cooled VW feels like. It's really something special when it's shown love and care.

Volkswagen had a plan- a recipe if you will. And just like a complex ecosystem or food chain, every action or part has a much bigger role in the ecosystem than we give them credit for. My childhood neighborhood had coyotes howling all night every night, so a neighbor "relocated" them. Guess what? We had one week of noise-free nights. Then the rabbits came. All the plants in every yard were vanishing. Then the rats. The rats that would scurry through your walls and keep you awake. Then the snakes. My point, is that every part in a system matters more than we can comprehend until it's too late. Volkswagen gave us a mechanical ecosystem that was, and still is, indestructible in stock form. Every engine has exactly as much power as it needs, no more. The cooling systems on these cars run on the brink all the time- add power and you add heat. Now you've messed with the ecosystem. The tiny carb you see? It pairs perfectly with the tiny exhaust system. An engine that can't produce enough power to hurt itself? Perfect for cruising all over the world in any climate. That's the recipe.

I encourage you to experience a well-tuned and properly running stock setup before you make up your mind. Remember these were new cars on a lot once, so a lumpy idle, stalling at lights, hesitation off throttle, hard starts, and ALL the other gremlins you hear at shows are, to me, unacceptable behaviors of any automobile on today's roads. "That's just how these old VWs are..." Is a load of steaming bull. Got a couple on a crash course behind me headed to prom texting and driving and not paying attention? When I mash on the gas and let the clutch out, it GOES. No feathering the gas, no blip-clearing out the carb, no slipping the clutch to prevent stalling. Just Go. Cold engine, hot engine, 100* out or 10* out.

Keep us updated, I'm glad you and that bus have each other, it should be a long and pleasant road ahead. 8)

Robbie

Brian Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:29 pm

you should be working on a Class 1 or Class 5.

Tcash Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:29 am

Hi
Here are some links on windshield metal repair.
Windshield repair
Windshield Repair

Wildthings Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:50 pm

Jack_O_Trades wrote:



Without knowing what to expect from a stock van vs a poorly maintained van, please give a shout out if something grabs your attention.

Thanks again for looking.

The two aluminium ducts on the right side of the engine are reversed. Your heat, which isn't that great to start with, won't work well at all with the ducts on wrong.

babysnakes Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:48 pm

If this is what you envision then go for it if you can.



And since the interior seems non stock and your woodworking skills are top notch, I look forward to seeing what you can achieve with this bus. Best of luck, looking forward to your progress.

Pinetops Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:09 pm

That is an incredible bus, congratulations!

suffecool2 Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:51 pm

It's your bus, do as you wish. Busdaddy can offer a lot of good advice, be nice to him :lol: .
You will find some of the purists ( some refer to them as stock Nazi's) can be a little overbearing(pain in the ass), but they mean well. A stock un-molested bus is getting pretty rare, so you can see why they get a little riled up.

When I got my bus it was an empty shell, two front seats & that was it! It had a smashed front end, but a zero mile rebuilt 1641 SP (bad choice on my part, they run hotter than a 1600) & all of the the lights & mechanical odds & ends were all good. All I had to do was chop off the top to put on a hightop, made all of the interior (with my wife's help), & just go over everything that I could.

Here is my build thread.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...highlight=

I also did some engine mods, not all necessary for everybody, & because I wanted to :lol: .

Now if I had bought it as a perfect stock bus, I never would have done anymore than just clean & wash it up. I even left mine a junker for over a year before I decided to do all I did to it (there has been a lot more done to it then is my thread [99.99% done inside & out], just haven't posted the pics yet), & yes I'll get some shit from the purists.

You may want to try dual carbs & a header w/a dual or single quite pack (got that setup on mine), before you go w/a bigger engine (made a huge difference for me :shock: ). It may be enough, maybe not. If not, just transfer the carbs & header over to your new power house!

As for the purists,
#1 Develop a thick skin
#2 Remind them (nicely :lol: ) it is your bus.
#3 Inform them you'd be more then happy to let them buy you a "Trailer Queen".
#4 Also take their comments w/a grain of salt, you WILL need their help.

Get a Bently manual & John Muir's idiot book!!! Both have info that the other doesn't, most useful info will be in the Bently. The oddball stuff, like roadside fixes etc, will be in the idiot book.

Jack_O_Trades Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:50 pm

Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's much appreciated. I just got back from a business trip to San Diego and been itching to get my hands dirty.

I have the Bently, Haynes, and Muir book. Also picked up a timing light. This is my first vehicle that's needed it (second, I guess, if you count the jeep).

So Here is what I NEED to do

Pull and clean the gas tank
Fix the transmission
Inspect and tune the engine
Bleed the brake system

I am tempted to do a quick tune and valve clearance check before I pull the engine just to see if there are any improvements to be made. Currently the engine doesn't start very easily, idles like crap (I have it adjusted to a high idle just to keep it running), and tends to flood. Any benefits to trying to tune it now VS just pulling it and going over it with a fine toothed comb?

suffecool2 Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:58 pm

Jack_O_Trades wrote: Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's much appreciated. I just got back from a business trip to San Diego and been itching to get my hands dirty.

I have the Bently, Haynes, and Muir book. Also picked up a timing light. This is my first vehicle that's needed it (second, I guess, if you count the jeep).

So Here is what I NEED to do

Pull and clean the gas tank
Fix the transmission
Inspect and tune the engine
Bleed the brake system

I am tempted to do a quick tune and valve clearance check before I pull the engine just to see if there are any improvements to be made. Currently the engine doesn't start very easily, idles like crap (I have it adjusted to a high idle just to keep it running), and tends to flood. Any benefits to trying to tune it now VS just pulling it and going over it with a fine toothed comb?

Try a tune first. Check the timing, valves (can make a huge difference), fuel filter, spark plug gap,check the plugs, play around w/the idle speed etc. Although the plugs may be easier to get to w/the engine out, at least they are on a dual carb engine.

Wasted youth Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:11 pm

Doesn't seem like much help to try and tune it when the entire power train needs a refresh. Said another way...why bother tuning it if you know you shouldn't be driving it around until you do all the seals, fuel line, gas tank, vacuum leak checks, etc.?

What if you go to the trouble of tuning it not knowing you have a vacuum leak somewhere, and you're just tuning around that unknowingly? What if you're trying to tune something that has burned valves or a defective fuel metering system?

If it were me, I'd start with a valve adjustment, then compression test, then leak-down test. If that all checks out and I think the engine is solid, then it's time to pull it all out and check crankshaft endplay and replace the clutch and those components. Once that's within spec, then I'd next move onto the fuel system/tank/filler neck, then move onto the battery tray, wiring and all the seals, gaskets and grommets.

Or whatever... :wink:



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