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Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:24 am

Chuey wrote: TequilaSunSet wrote:
The design makes me puke, they are so UGLY!

.....And, the Ford is less ugly? In my opinion, both would not be bought for their looks and both look equal on my aesthetic scale.

The Eurovan is a handsome vehicle. The Vanagon --- I can't consider myself objective, but me likey!

Chuey

Vanagon is a babe magnet!

Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:31 am

kamzcab86 wrote: Volkswagen literature states total cargo capacity of its passenger vans is:
Eurovan = 201 cubic feet (rear and center seats removed)
Vanagon = 201 cubic feet (rear seat folded down, center seat removed).

Measurement comparisons:
http://a2resource.com/brochures/1993/eurovanreference/source/26.jpg
http://a2resource.com/brochures/1993/eurovanreference/source/27.jpg

Can you post a link to the 201 cubic feet specification? I've seen two lengths listed for Eurovans in official dimensioned drawings. One shows a length of 5107mm and the other shows a length of 4789. In my model/cals I used the 4789 Euro length (9 inches longer than a vanagon) posted in the pics in this thread. If the interior volume is listed as the same as a vanagon, I imagine the calculation must come from the longer 5107mm version (21" longer than a vanagon). My calcs were also based on all the seats being removed from either vehicle.

Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:44 am

Andrew A. Libby wrote: kamzcab86 wrote: Volkswagen literature states total cargo capacity of its passenger vans is:
Eurovan = 201 cubic feet (rear and center seats removed)
Vanagon = 201 cubic feet (rear seat folded down, center seat removed).

Measurement comparisons:
http://a2resource.com/brochures/1993/eurovanreference/source/26.jpg
http://a2resource.com/brochures/1993/eurovanreference/source/27.jpg

Can you post a link to the 201 cubic feet specification? I've seen two lengths listed for Eurovans in official dimensioned drawings. One shows a length of 5107mm and the other shows a length of 4789. In my model/cals I used the 4789 Euro length (9 inches longer than a vanagon) posted in the pics in this thread. If the interior volume is listed as the same as a vanagon, I imagine the calculation must come from the longer 5107mm version (21" longer than a vanagon). My calcs were also based on all the seats being removed from either vehicle.

Come to think of it, my friend with the EVC Winnebago said it is longer than the tintop chassis. Not sure how the T4 weekender chassis compares. Sounds like two calculations are in order to compare.

Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:58 am

singler3360 wrote: Sounds like two calculations are in order to compare.

Not for me. :-) I want the shorter overall length of the vanagon to park more easily, coupled with the longer roof of the vanagon in order to have the added space in the high top.

Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:00 am

I love the Vajazzle video. Very funny.

Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:05 am

vela123321 wrote: I think that's the problem. Europeans tend to head to the countryside every weekend. In summer, the people north tend to drive south. There are so many smaller camper type vehicles that people enjoy. Here in the US people tend to want a house on wheels. I can't believe how big these things can get. I also don't get driving to some campsite, setting up, and then sit inside your 5th wheel for a few days. I think we should each be able to choose our hobbies and interests; I'm just saying that the huge American camper isn't for me.

My son always likes the comments he hears as people walk by the Vanagon. I must say it gets a lot of comments. Perhaps the market for a smaller style camper is bigger than I assume, but probably not at 80,000 Euros!
Boy I agree! Also add that a lot of Europeans live in apartments, have convenient public transportation and you now you have a situation where:
-You do not need to drive your vehicle everyday
-A smaller place to park it
-Higher fuel costs and ..
-no need to paint the house or cut grass on the weekend

Result = bigger market for a small, yet convenient get-away vehicle.

Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:52 am

vanagonjr wrote:
Boy I agree! Also add that a lot of Europeans live in apartments, have convenient public transportation and you now you have a situation where:
-You do not need to drive your vehicle everyday
-A smaller place to park it
-Higher fuel costs and ..
-no need to paint the house or cut grass on the weekend

Result = bigger market for a small, yet convenient get-away vehicle.

Our Potsdam friend's situation exactly. It works for them very well. They live in a top floor apartment on the edge of Sanssoucci Park and within walking/biking distance of everything they need. No need for a daily driver of any kind even with three young kids. Very different from our infrastructure here (generalizing, I know).

Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:00 am

There still isn't a comparable replacement for the Vanagon in the US as far as I am concerned. The Transit is massive. The Transit Connect is minuscule. Ford actually does offer a mid-sized van that would fill the niche nicely (google "ford transit custom" or "ford tourneo"), but it is not offered in the US.

Until some maker fills the mid-sized niche, I don't see there being anything worth considering. I don't want a giant commercial van in my driveway any more than I want a ground-scraping mini "van".

Here are some volume stats I pulled for fun:
Transit Connect: 129 cu. ft.
Transit Custom: 210.1 cu. ft.
Transit: 246.7-487.3 cu. ft. :shock:

I think it would be great to see some properly proportioned mid-sized vans in the US to at least keep things interesting (renderings of the T6 look great to me)... but until then, viva Vanagon!!

Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:07 am

Andrew A. Libby wrote: Can you post a link to the 201 cubic feet specification? I've seen two lengths listed for Eurovans in official dimensioned drawings. One shows a length of 5107mm and the other shows a length of 4789. In my model/cals I used the 4789 Euro length (9 inches longer than a vanagon) posted in the pics in this thread. If the interior volume is listed as the same as a vanagon, I imagine the calculation must come from the longer 5107mm version (21" longer than a vanagon). My calcs were also based on all the seats being removed from either vehicle.

There are two sources at this link: http://a2resource.com/brochures/1993/

There were two lengths for the T4. The passenger vans, including pop-top MV, were on the standard 115" wheelbase, which is what the 201 cubic feet of cargo volume is based on; the Winnebago full-camper vans were on the extended length 131" wheelbase.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/97eurovanwinnebago.php

Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:09 am

vanagonjr wrote: The Chicken tax is not preventing VW, or anyone else, form importing passenger vans or campers. It did not stop VW after 1963 from selling these, but it did effectively stop cargo van and pick-up variations.

Quite right, but importation costs in general are a big factor for European manufacturers. VW not only has to pay importation fees (which buyers offset with paying higher prices), but they also have to pay megabucks to get the engines and such to pass muster for the NA market. It's all a big racket, to some degree.

If VW is selling the base model T5 California in Europe for a base price of €50,000-something, there's no way they're going to be selling it here for the equivalent price... or, worse, at a loss. There's a reason VW partnered with Chrysler to build the Routan instead of just bringing the Sharan or T5 here. :wink:

foodeater wrote: The regulations are different for the Euro-zone and North American market, its hard to say that one is tougher, or better, but they are different.

Ironically, there was talk in the past year of the EU and NA coming together to create one set of standards for both car-buying regions. It would be great for both consumers and manufacturers if they actually accomplished this, but I'm not holding my breath. :roll:

Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:23 am

kamzcab86 wrote: There are two sources at this link: http://a2resource.com/brochures/1993/

There were two lengths for the T4. The passenger vans, including pop-top MV, were on the standard 115" wheelbase, which is what the 201 cubic feet of cargo volume is based on; the Winnebago full-camper vans were on the extended length 131" wheelbase.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/97eurovanwinnebago.php

Thanks. To be clear, they are only counting the space from behind the front seats to the back hatch and in the vanagon they are not including the storage area under the rear seat. In the Eurovan, the middle and rear seats are removed so the space under the rear seat is included.

Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:50 pm

kamzcab86 wrote: vanagonjr wrote: The Chicken tax is not preventing VW, or anyone else, form importing passenger vans or campers. It did not stop VW after 1963 from selling these, but it did effectively stop cargo van and pick-up variations.

Quite right, but importation costs in general are a big factor for European manufacturers. VW not only has to pay importation fees (which buyers offset with paying higher prices), but they also have to pay megabucks to get the engines and such to pass muster for the NA market. It's all a big racket, to some degree.

If VW is selling the base model T5 California in Europe for a base price of €50,000-something, there's no way they're going to be selling it here for the equivalent price... or, worse, at a loss. There's a reason VW partnered with Chrysler to build the Routan instead of just bringing the Sharan or T5 here. :wink:

foodeater wrote: The regulations are different for the Euro-zone and North American market, its hard to say that one is tougher, or better, but they are different.

Ironically, there was talk in the past year of the EU and NA coming together to create one set of standards for both car-buying regions. It would be great for both consumers and manufacturers if they actually accomplished this, but I'm not holding my breath. :roll:

It would be fantastic if the regulations lined up more within in the two zones, but I can't imagine it will ever happen. I believe that there are still differences between the countries of North America, I think Canada, and the US still have different bumper regulations, but they are close enough.

Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:22 pm

travelteam wrote: There still isn't a comparable replacement for the Vanagon in the US as far as I am concerned. The Transit is massive. The Transit Connect is minuscule. Ford actually does offer a mid-sized van that would fill the niche nicely (google "ford transit custom" or "ford tourneo"), but it is not offered in the US.

Until some maker fills the mid-sized niche, I don't see there being anything worth considering. I don't want a giant commercial van in my driveway any more than I want a ground-scraping mini "van".

Here are some volume stats I pulled for fun:
Transit Connect: 129 cu. ft.
Transit Custom: 210.1 cu. ft.
Transit: 246.7-487.3 cu. ft. :shock:

I think it would be great to see some properly proportioned mid-sized vans in the US to at least keep things interesting (renderings of the T6 look great to me)... but until then, viva Vanagon!!

I don't know why GM kept these such a secret but, I'll let y'all know about it. Chevy has been offering a factory AWD full size van for like 10 years. I don't know why the Transit gets all the attention. The Chevy vans are sweet. I decided to replace my Syncro with something new and this was the closest replacement I could find. It's AWD and has a rear locker. It has a sliding door. It gets better mileage than my vanagon. I would have happily bought a new VW but this fits my needs. Too bad 2014 was the last year of production. All the 1/2 ton vans are gone to make room for the new small cargo vans.

from this

to this

now this

and after my syncro is sold I'll do this

Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:34 pm

I'm laughing at myself... I started this thread with the "What if?" and I now find myself liking my Vanagon even more now... going to go give my van a hug now :lol:

Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:56 pm

IrideWheelies wrote: . All the 1/2 ton vans are gone to make room for the new small cargo vans.

Funny how the typical US van is seemingly going extinct, yet it was a sweet spot in size - IMHO.

Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:43 pm

IrideWheelies wrote:

and after my syncro is sold I'll do this

I'd get that if it looked more like this with a TDI in the back...

Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:58 pm

No pop-top

Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:06 pm

Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:13 pm

^^Reminds me of the old econoline... loved those

Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:07 am

Here's and up-and-coming company with some interesting pop-top conversions. Let's hope they do one of these newer vans, especially a 4wd van. Nice alternative to Sportsmobile and other existing conversions...

http://www.ursaminorvehicles.com/camper_main.htm