TheSamba.com :: View topic - 58-64 vs 65-67 Rear Brakes

Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:30 pm

What is the difference and interchangeability between 58-64 and 65-66 rear brake components?

58-64 and 65-67 backing plates are listed as different .. what is the difference? the only thing visually seems to be the stamping around the bearing retainer.

58-64 and 65-67 shoes are the same except for the style of adjusters? early had straight edges and later had angled? You can use 65-67 shoes on 58-64 backing plates if you use the 65-67 adjusters too?

can 65-67 bearing retainers be used on 58-64 backing plates?

Thanks

Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:08 pm

This is what I am looking at -- what here is interchangeable/can be mixed and matched?

I've got 58-64 backing plates, 65-66 axles tubes bearing retainers, and want to know if I can make it all work together with 65-66 shoes and adjusters .. Or do I just need to get some 65-66 backing plates ?

Thanks

Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:46 pm

58-64
Straight adjuster slots and shoe foot
"Drum Slinger" oil deflector and non shrouded bearing cap

65-67
Angled adjuster and shoe foot
Shrouded bearing cap with internal "slinger" deflector and oil leak weep hole in backing plate.

Yes some parts can be mix and matched to work together just fine.

For example its good practice to use 65-67 shrouded bearing caps to take advantage of the internal defector. The weep hole must be driled to match the cap..

Shoes used depends on the adjusters used.

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:

glutamodo wrote: The 65-67 are actually almost the same as the 58-64, they just use an angled adjuster. If you change the adjusters, you can use the later shoes. And you can put the early adjusters on a 65-67 and use the early shoes.
The early ones are straight, the late ones are angled:

.

.

Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:40 pm

So the only functional difference in the 58-64 backing plate vs 65-67 is the oil drain hole?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:47 pm

Almost...

If my memory is correct..
58-64 used narrow slot wheel cylinders
and 65-67 used wider slot wheel cylinders.

The 65-67 backing plate also has a shoe resting boss or "Shoe Boss" to help support the shoes at the top with the wider cylinder slot and yes.. .a weep hole.

I guess its best to know what you have... and what you want to make work.

.

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:02 pm

Thanks Volkswagnut . .

I guess I should hunt down the parts that were designed to work together rather than just being lazy and trying to make stuff I have laying around work :oops:

Someday I'll learn :lol:

Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:59 am

Ha. I use what I got..
No sense in spending money if you have something that works just fine..

I can help.. what parts do you have?

.

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:39 am

Basically I have all 65-66 parts .. except backing plates which are 58-64. If the 65-66 backing plates already have the weep holes and better contact points, it sounds like it would be best to go with 65-66 backing plates as well.

I just scored a set on fleabay so going that direction.

Thanks again for your help and your astounding database of knowledge Volkswagnut

Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:17 pm

Ok so i've been wading through P/O hackery and someone reading my build thread for my 59 directed me here a while back. the only question about what fits with what i have is the rear drums. The drums i had on the car were a mismatch of 64 on one side and a 67 drum on the other. I have a spare set of 67 drums that are in serviceable order, as compared to the trashed set that came on the vehicle. My question is this: Can you use 67 rear drums with the oil slinger setup for 64 and down? Everything else in the drum will be 64 and down, apart from the drums themselves

Thanks

Bret

Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:38 pm

Bret2094 wrote: Ok so i've been wading through P/O hackery and someone reading my build thread for my 59 directed me here a while back. the only question about what fits with what i have is the rear drums. The drums i had on the car were a mismatch of 64 on one side and a 67 drum on the other. I have a spare set of 67 drums that are in serviceable order, as compared to the trashed set that came on the vehicle. My question is this: Can you use 67 rear drums with the oil slinger setup for 64 and down? Everything else in the drum will be 64 and down, apart from the drums themselves

Thanks

Bret

Not to be a smartass but couldn't you just take a tape measure and measure diameter, depth, and depth of the offset of the stub in the middle and know instantly whether they will work.

Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:48 pm

[email protected] wrote: Bret2094 wrote: Ok so i've been wading through P/O hackery and someone reading my build thread for my 59 directed me here a while back. the only question about what fits with what i have is the rear drums. The drums i had on the car were a mismatch of 64 on one side and a 67 drum on the other. I have a spare set of 67 drums that are in serviceable order, as compared to the trashed set that came on the vehicle. My question is this: Can you use 67 rear drums with the oil slinger setup for 64 and down? Everything else in the drum will be 64 and down, apart from the drums themselves

Thanks

Bret

Not to be a smartass but couldn't you just take a tape measure and measure diameter, depth, and depth of the offset of the stub in the middle and know instantly whether they will work.

From one smartass to another: I had no clue what to do, as neither drum previously had a slinger on it, and i was un aware of the difference in depth on drums. Now I know to measure. Sometimes being an ass is helpful, and i commend you

Bret

Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:55 pm

I've been running '58-'64 brakes without oil slinger or the later cap for years. For most of those years new oil slingers where not available, though they are now.

To fit the oil slinger, if you choose to run them, you need the small hole in the outer edge of the drum where the tube from the slinger fits to let any oil escape. This hole is next the the braking surface, outboard of it right near the corner between the outside diameter and the face. The other hole is for the tab that you bend over to hold it in the drum. This is in the center area and about the same size as the one for the adjuster.

Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:07 am

Sounds like with all the effort, i might as well track down the correct drums, instead of the drilling business. Thanks for that! More info that i was lookin for.

Bret

Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:47 am

You might take a look for that small hole in the edge of the drum. Replacement rear drums are generally listed as being for 1958-1967. Original 1965-1967 drums may be lacking that hole, but perhaps not.

Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:59 am

"Can you use 67 rear drums with the oil slinger setup for 64 and down?"

Yes, you can. In fact, smooth faced '58-'65 style drums were superseded by the ribbed style '66-'67 versions years ago.

If you went to buy brand new drums for a '64 from WW, CIP1 or anywhere else, they would look like '66-'67.

They all have the large hole near the middle for the slinger's bend over retaining tab, but as mentioned there is no hole for the slinger drain tube to exit.

If have an early drum to use as a reference, not too hard to mark out and drill a hole in the outer edge. Cast iron is soft and drills like butter with a sharp bit.

Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:06 am

So if I have a 1960 front end and rums, and a 1965 transaxle and drums, could I just get a brake rebuild kit for 58-64 and have it work without issue? Im rebuilding an old Empi Imp and Socalautoparts has complete rebuild kits for front and back but the ranges are 58-64 or 65-66 @_@ cheaper to do it this way if I can without mucking anything up

Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:16 am

No, the 1965 rear brakes use different backing plates, shoes, wheel cylinders, and adjusters. If you scroll up this thread you will see the difference in the shoes. The wheel cylinders for 1965-1967 had wide slots. The angled adjusters for 1965-1967 had wide slots. The 1965-1967 backing plate had additional shoe resting spots (this is what keeps the shoes parallel to the drums) by the wheel cylinder and by the adjuster.

The 1958-1964 backing plates only had the one shoe rest just outward of the shoe hold down spring. They used the wheel cylinder and adjuster (each with narrow slots) as the other shoe rests.

Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:49 pm

ah now I see it, I honestly was looking at the measurments and everything trying to figure out what was different xD well.. crap. lol Thanks! :P

Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:13 am

actually... what if I'm not 100% sure what year my transaxle is? # is
8 220 403 which would lead me to believe its possibly a 65 but I cant find a chart or anything that goes past early 65 before that number comes, would it be logical to assume it is 65 if the earlier-mid 65s numbers on charts stopped at July and 8 131 843?

Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:08 pm

At one point I went and extracted every transaxle number found in VW's "book-of-changes" Progressive Refinements to give a few further dates after the charts stopped:

Aug 01 1965 Chassis 116 000 001 Rear Axle 8185079
Sep 07 1965 Chassis 116 114 583 Rear Axle 8424250
Oct 29 1965 Chassis 116 298 201 Rear Axle 8567900
Jun 08 1966 Chassis 116 976 636 Rear Axle 9343990
Aug 24 1966 Chassis 117 097 951 Rear Axle 9488596
Sep 01 1966 Chassis 117 112 318 Rear Axle 9608293
Sep 02 1966 Chassis 117 114 847 Rear Axle 9618155

So yours looks to be from August, 1965, that would be 1966 model year.

-Andy