TheSamba.com :: View topic - Rebuild 1968 Squareback in one year? = FAIL

Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:24 pm

Bobnotch wrote: bkeith85 wrote:
I did a quick search, but didn't see an answer to my hatch problem. I'm also curious how I should approach painting the inside and outside.

What was the question of he hatch problem? Sorry if I missed you asking.

I think I missed that one too.

Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:26 am

I guess I didn't actually ask any questions. I was in a hurry yesterday.

Is there a way to adjust the hatch to the left and right? When closed, mine looks fine and the gaps are ok. Not perfect, but ok. But, when you open it, you can tell it is pushed over to one side. The little rubber blocks that align it when closed are there, but the one on the right is mashed flat while the left one is at least twice as thick. I guess I could just get new blocks, but it seems like those should only be for a slight misalignment, not to push the hatch over 1/4". Or is that normal?

When you close it, it comes really close to rubbing the body, but so far it does not. If I am getting it ready for paint, i'd like to get it back in place to avoid problems down the road.
The hatch does have a small dent (2" dia) right next to the latch, so it has been hit with something. Also, the rear apron was pushed in some, but I don't see where it affected anything around it. Nothing is wrinkled or warped and that dent is right in the middle, about 4-5" in dia. It didn't even mess up that crease that is right behind the bumper.

Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:39 pm

bkeith85 wrote: I guess I didn't actually ask any questions. I was in a hurry yesterday.

Is there a way to adjust the hatch to the left and right? When closed, mine looks fine and the gaps are ok. Not perfect, but ok. But, when you open it, you can tell it is pushed over to one side. The little rubber blocks that align it when closed are there, but the one on the right is mashed flat while the left one is at least twice as thick. I guess I could just get new blocks, but it seems like those should only be for a slight misalignment, not to push the hatch over 1/4". Or is that normal?

When you close it, it comes really close to rubbing the body, but so far it does not. If I am getting it ready for paint, i'd like to get it back in place to avoid problems down the road.
The hatch does have a small dent (2" dia) right next to the latch, so it has been hit with something. Also, the rear apron was pushed in some, but I don't see where it affected anything around it. Nothing is wrinkled or warped and that dent is right in the middle, about 4-5" in dia. It didn't even mess up that crease that is right behind the bumper.

You'll have to loosen the bolts that hold the hatch to the hinge to adjust the side to side position. Do 1 side at a time, so you can always get back to where you started. You might even want to mark the location of the screws to the hinge before starting.

I don't think the dent next to the latch will be a problem, as the latch is under the bottom of the gate (hidden pretty good). Now if there's some damage in the latch area, I'd be concerned.

Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:50 am

How does that work? I can't visualize it. The hinges bolt to the sides of the hatch, so loosening them seems like it would allow it to move up and down or in and out, but I can't figure out how it would go sideways.

My up/down/in/out directions are as if I am looking at the back of the car.

I could understand if the hinges bolted on to the roof somehow, as I could just loosen them and slide it over a little. But I think they are welded on.
I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. I definitely won't be the one to argue with Bobnotch over VW body work. :shock:

Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:53 am

I did just realize that maybe those alignment blocks need to be adjusted. I haven't tried that yet. I could move the left one so that it didn't contact as soon. Maybe it is only being pushed over at the very last second. I guess I could actually take those off and see where it closes with no pressure applied.

Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:30 pm

bkeith85 wrote: How does that work? I can't visualize it. The hinges bolt to the sides of the hatch, so loosening them seems like it would allow it to move up and down or in and out, but I can't figure out how it would go sideways.
As you loosen say the right side bolts, that side of the gate will travel up/down on those screws, but also at that same time they either push/pull that side closer/farther from the opening. Same applies with the left side hinge screws. You might find that it only needs to move 1mm up/down to get it in the correct spot, as 1m up top becomes quite a bit at the bottom. That's why I say do 1 side at a time, as you can really change how the gate fits into the opening real quick.
You might try the gate wedges first, but those wedges are actually for keeping the gate from rattling when closed, versus setting position.

Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:13 am

I'm still confused. I can see where loosening the bolts would make it go up/down and in/out, but not to the side. Just in case we are talking about two different things, this is what I am talking about:

It fits flush with the rest of the body, it just needs to go over to the left.

I get that I could make the gap wider by moving it outward, but then it would stick out too far and may not seal, or just look weird because it isn't flush.
Maybe that's my only option. I'll have to look at it some more this weekend and maybe try some small adjustments.

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:23 pm

What I was getting at won't help you. I don't think moving the wedges will help either. I only say that as the gate is all to 1 side of the opening. You might want to look at the hinges, just to make sure the holes haven't oblonged. I only mention it, as we've seen it happen to others. It's just 1 of the drawbacks to owning a Squareback.
If the gate otherwise fits the opening flush, and closes nice, I'd leave it alone. But, that's just me. I've had some gates that were a royal PIA to close, because something was tweeked. Just my take on it.

Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:47 am

Forgive me as I did not read the whole thread nor am I looking at my sqr. but going off vague memory, but seeing the picture my mind immediately goes to shimming this over by adding washers to both sides. If nudging the brackets isn't viable.

Anyway, brainstorm or brain fart you pick. :D

Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:54 pm

Bobnotch wrote: What I was getting at won't help you. I don't think moving the wedges will help either. I only say that as the gate is all to 1 side of the opening. You might want to look at the hinges, just to make sure the holes haven't oblonged. I only mention it, as we've seen it happen to others. It's just 1 of the drawbacks to owning a Squareback.
If the gate otherwise fits the opening flush, and closes nice, I'd leave it alone. But, that's just me. I've had some gates that were a royal PIA to close, because something was tweeked. Just my take on it.

That's what I was afraid of. Yeah, it opens and closes great, that's why I haven't tried adjusting it yet. I know how easy it is to make it worse and you never seem to be able to get back to where you started.
When I get the headliner out and start doing my bodywork, I'll study it and see if I can come up with something.

Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:55 pm

sqbk1971 wrote: Forgive me as I did not read the whole thread nor am I looking at my sqr. but going off vague memory, but seeing the picture my mind immediately goes to shimming this over by adding washers to both sides. If nudging the brackets isn't viable.

Anyway, brainstorm or brain fart you pick. :D

I thought about that, but with the way the hinges attach, if you could add washers, it wouldn't really move it any.

Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:33 pm

bkeith85 wrote: Bobnotch wrote: What I was getting at won't help you. I don't think moving the wedges will help either. I only say that as the gate is all to 1 side of the opening. You might want to look at the hinges, just to make sure the holes haven't oblonged. I only mention it, as we've seen it happen to others. It's just 1 of the drawbacks to owning a Squareback.
If the gate otherwise fits the opening flush, and closes nice, I'd leave it alone. But, that's just me. I've had some gates that were a royal PIA to close, because something was tweeked. Just my take on it.

That's what I was afraid of. Yeah, it opens and closes great, that's why I haven't tried adjusting it yet. I know how easy it is to make it worse and you never seem to be able to get back to where you started.
When I get the headliner out and start doing my bodywork, I'll study it and see if I can come up with something.

Good plan. :D

Wed May 16, 2018 8:35 am

OK, so I'm just going to respond back to the last conversation here as if it were yesterday and not a year ago. I'm sure no one will notice.

Anyway, so my rear hatch was offset to one side and I couldn't figure out how to adjust it back to the center. I did get some not new, but better wedge thingies from ISP and I think they will help it when closed. But I determined that the only real fix for it was brute force.
Well, it may not be "brute" force, but it was adequate.

I just pushed it over to the other side. I opened the hatch, stood on one side and gave it 2 or 3 firm shoves and it now fits a lot better. I think the hinges just got bent at some point and needed to be tweaked.

I tried adjusting the hinges, but those can get it outta whack pretty quick. Any adjustment caused it to graze the drip rail at the top and I didn't like that.

Wed May 16, 2018 9:31 am

bkeith85 wrote: OK, so I'm just going to respond back to the last conversation here as if it were yesterday and not a year ago. I'm sure no one will notice.

Anyway, so my rear hatch was offset to one side and I couldn't figure out how to adjust it back to the center. I did get some not new, but better wedge thingies from ISP and I think they will help it when closed. But I determined that the only real fix for it was brute force.
Well, it may not be "brute" force, but it was adequate.

I just pushed it over to the other side. I opened the hatch, stood on one side and gave it 2 or 3 firm shoves and it now fits a lot better. I think the hinges just got bent at some point and needed to be tweaked.

I tried adjusting the hinges, but those can get it outta whack pretty quick. Any adjustment caused it to graze the drip rail at the top and I didn't like that.

Yeah, sometimes you just have to get mid-evil on it.

Wed May 16, 2018 1:12 pm

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that my rear cargo floor was rusted through. I had the option to buy pieces cut from another car, but I felt like those may not be any better. I also figured I could make something for a lot less money. I was able to make some patches, and while they aren't perfect, I think they turned out ok. They fit perfectly and I was going more for structural integrity than appearance anyway. They will be covered with sound deadening material, so any ugliness will be hidden. Plus, they will have insulation and carpet on top of that.
I sprayed them with some old Dupont epoxy primer I had laying around, so hopefully I won't have any rust problems for a long time.

Here is One of the pieces:

Well, I got the pieces made, but the task of putting them in was pretty intimidating. I also needed to work on one of my other cars, so I spent most of last year rebuilding my Bronco to get it ready for the family to ride in this summer.

About the time I finished that project, someone here at work reminded me that the Type 3 Invasion was coming up. Crap! I really wanted to go to that.
So lately, I have been working my butt off trying to get this car back together enough for the Invasion and maybe a couple other local shows, then blow it back apart and finish it.
That meant I had to suck it up and start cutting up the floor.

If anyone is curious where the spot welds are, those pics ought to cover it.
I also took this opportunity to straighten out my rear apron. I got it pretty close with my stud gun and a shrinking disc, but it still needs some filler.

I started welding in the patches one at a time, so the other panels would stay in place better.

I took my time and got lucky that my patches fit pretty well. Putting them in just took time with all the welding.

I also installed a half floor pan patch from ISP on the passenger side. The crazy thing is, it was almost as much work to get it to fit as the ones I made. I know the Gerson pans are probably way better, but I didn't want to pull the body off. Maybe someday I will and I would redo the pans, but this is just fine for now. I can actually set the battery in there!

When I got it all in, I sprayed it all again with more epoxy primer. This time from SPI, who I have been reading a lot about on other boards. It went on real easy and is super durable. I'm happy with it so far.

This is where I am right now. The powder is dust from sanding the filler on my rear apron.

I still have to do the seam sealer, weld all those brackets and stuff back in, then spray another coat or two of primer. Then the floor should be good for now. I am going to spray the sides of the body in the final color so when I put in the wiring harness, I won't have to pull it back out again. Once the wiring goes in, all I have to do is put the fenders back on and put the seats in. Hope to see everyone in Scottsboro next month!

Thu May 17, 2018 11:10 am

Very Nice. =D> Well done. Looks good. Nice fab skills too. Really looks factory. 8)

Thu May 17, 2018 8:05 pm

that looks great!

Mon May 21, 2018 1:02 pm

Thanks guys! I appreciate the kind words, but if you saw it in person, you might change your mind. Those wide ribs are pretty wavy. But, it's all really solid, so I think it turned out ok. I just smeared a bunch of seam sealer on the edges and under that rear lip and sprayed it and the apron one more time with primer. The apron isn't perfect, but I needed to get some epoxy on it before the Invasion. I'll just scuff it later and continue on. It may need more filler, I don't know. I need to study it more.
I'm going to spray some of the final color in a few places so I can start putting the car back together. I have a few more weeks, so *fingers crossed*.

Tue May 22, 2018 6:13 am

Great job squaring that back cargo area away. Looks really good. Congrats!

Tue May 22, 2018 10:11 am

bkeith85 wrote: Thanks guys! I appreciate the kind words, but if you saw it in person, you might change your mind. Those wide ribs are pretty wavy. But, it's all really solid, so I think it turned out ok. I just smeared a bunch of seam sealer on the edges and under that rear lip and sprayed it and the apron one more time with primer. The apron isn't perfect, but I needed to get some epoxy on it before the Invasion. I'll just scuff it later and continue on. It may need more filler, I don't know. I need to study it more.
I'm going to spray some of the final color in a few places so I can start putting the car back together. I have a few more weeks, so *fingers crossed*.

Keep in mind that once you put the mat back in you won't see any of that work. It doesn't have to be perfect, just functional. Wow, that sounds so German doesn't it, function over form. :wink:

Also, keep in mind that a Type 3 Invasion ISN'T a car show, but rather a gathering of like minded people who own and drive these quirky little cars. 8) While many attendees do work on trying to get their cars to look their best, the main focus of an Invasion IS the people. Having attended a few Invasions over the years, there have been some really nice cars (a couple did come in on trailers), the majority did arrive under there own power. I'd also attended 2 Invasions where a car was repaired (FI had a fault) and were driven away. One was the Hershey Invasion where Ron Mann (Co-host) brought his Fastback there to see if the FI guru's could get it going...they did (I drove that car back to Ron's house for him too). The other was the Michigan Invasion where an attendee had just left to head home and had to be brought back on a flat bed. The FI guru's swarmed it and had it up and running again in 45 minutes. 8)
Sorry if I got carried away there, but I thought you should know it's not really a car show, but rather a people meet and greet. I've also attended Invasions where some cars ran better when they left, than when they got there (Toby's being the exception). In his case he lost an engine coming back from Pike's Peak, and another invader loaned him his engine to get home on (they had flat towed their car there).