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Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:56 pm

So I'm prepping the 1.9 NA that I got with my westy for install and I notice that the pump has a bunch of extra wires coming off of it other than the shut off solenoid. These wires go to a big round plug on a bracket just above the vacuum pump. Are these connections going to be a problem ?
Will I have to get a different pump if they are diagnostic connections ?

Sorry I don't have more to go on right now, I got the motor with the van and it came from Quality German Auto out of a later model Jetta I believe.

Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:38 pm

that looks to be a T29..... its a plug and play. Manufactures went to this system to speed up/simplify assembly lines. Your engine is not original to your van so your dash instruments dont match your engine. The swapper went around this plug and used what was needed to make it work in the vanagon. Im just BS'n here but thats my hunch on what you got going on!

you may have some diagnostic pins in that group but w/ out a wiring schematic i couldnt tell you what ones. If your able to see any wires out the back of this plug look for a yellow or yellow/red stripe and a grey or grey/white stripe these are the diagnostic wires AKA L and K line wires. also a red or red/white line (+ ignition on) and a brown or w/white or green stripe (this is your ground) all together these four should produce a diagnostic set up . But if your now a mechanical diesel and not electronic you wont have an ECM for a place to store faults for diagnostics.

I hope this helps!

Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:47 pm

Thanks Dillon
By T-29 do you mean the pump ?
No this engine is not original to the van, it was in a crate and the engine in the van was a badly converted upright 1.8 gasser using the diesel bell housing etc, but originally the vehicle came with the waterboxer.
In my previous post I said it was a 1-Y but I have heard them refered to as a 1-Z also ? It's the non- turbo version of the AAZ.

So when I go to wire the pump up do I have to have any of those wires key switched hot for the pump to flow?

Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:24 pm

Oh, You do have a 1Z! Its an electronically controlled/managed diesel. Do you have the wiring harness and ECM?

Huge debates over whats better, mechanical or electric.

The 1Z came in the first Generation TDI passats.

You can have that pump modded to a mechanical and the your engine will only need a few wires to operate....Look up Andrew Libby or karl Mullendore if you want to go mechanical. Otherwise you have to convert your pedal to a drive by wire.

Good luck, I applaud you going to diesel. We have to of em a 1Z and an AFN both in Passats. I have a 2.0 gasser built for our vanagon. I would have gone diesel in the van but the caars just wont quit!

Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:02 pm

Rats! That's what I was afraid of.
So I need to come up with pedal, harness, ECU ?
Kinda seems like it might be easier to just go the mechanical route ?
Definitely going to have to do some more research, so 1Zs came in early TDI Passat? Now I'm really confused because mine is non turbo.

Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:28 am

I think this may be your engine???

1.9 R4 SDI 29-50kW[edit]
This is a naturally aspirated (non-turbo) Suction Diesel Injection version of the 1.9 TDI VP37

identification
parts code prefix: ???; ID codes: AEY, AGD, AGP, ASX, ASY, AYQ
engine configuration & engine displacement
inline four-cylinder (R4/I4) Suction Diesel Injection (SDI); 1,896 cubic centimetres (115.7 cu in); bore x stroke: 79.5 by 95.5 millimetres (3.13 in × 3.76 in), stroke ratio: 0.83:1 - undersquare/long-stroke, 474.1 cc per cylinder, compression ratio: 19.5:1 - 22.0:1 (44 kW - 19.5:1)
cylinder block & crankcase
grey cast iron; five main bearings, die-forged steel crankshaft
cylinder head & valvetrain
cast aluminium alloy; two valves per cylinder, 8 valves total, bucket tappets, single overhead camshaft (SOHC)
aspiration
cast aluminium alloy intake manifold, cast iron exhaust manifold
fuel system & engine management
Bosch VP37 (VerteilerPumpe) electronic distributor injection pump, direct injection (DI) with five-hole nozzles, Bosch EDC 15V+ electronic engine control unit (ECU)
dimensions
mass: 198 kilograms (437 lb) (dry weight, Marine variants)
EWG-rated motive power & torque outputs, ID codes, application
30 kilowatts (41 PS; 40 bhp) @ 2,800 rpm;— BXT Volkswagen Industrial Motor 430 (05/06->)
44 kilowatts (60 PS; 59 bhp) @ 3,600 rpm; 130 newton metres (96 lbf·ft) @ 2,200 rpm — AEY Volkswagen Industrial Motor 444
DIN-rated motive power & torque outputs, ID codes, applications
29 kilowatts (39 PS; 39 bhp) @ 2,600 rpm; 125 newton metres (92 lbf·ft) @ 2,000 rpm — BGM Volkswagen Marine 40-4 (02/03->)
33 kilowatts (45 PS; 44 bhp) — BEQ Volkswagen Marine (02/02->)
37 kilowatts (50 PS; 50 bhp) @ 3,000 rpm; 125 newton metres (92 lbf·ft) @ 2,000 rpm — BGL Volkswagen Marine 50-4 (02/03->)
44 kilowatts (60 PS; 59 bhp) @ 3,600 rpm; 125 newton metres (92 lbf·ft) @ 2,000 rpm — ANC Volkswagen Marine 60-4 (02/03->)
47 kilowatts (64 PS; 63 bhp) @ 4,200 rpm; 125 newton metres (92 lbf·ft) @ 1,600-2,800 rpm — ASY
50 kilowatts (68 PS; 67 bhp) @ 4,000 rpm; 133 newton metres (98 lbf·ft) @ 1,800 rpm — AQM
applications
VW Polo 6N/6KV (AEY: 12/95-08/99), VW Golf Mk3 & VW Golf Mk4 (AEY: 07/95-02/99), VW Vento (AEY: 07/95-12/97), VW Caddy Mk2 (AEY: 11/95-09/00), Škoda Fabia, SEAT Ibiza Mk2/SEAT Cordoba 6K (AEY: 09/95-06/99), SEAT León Mk1 (1M) (AQM: 06/00-10/03), SEAT Inca (AEY: 11/95-09/00)
reference
"The SDI 1.9 Industrial Engine" (PDF), mi-uk.com (Volkswagen AG), March 2005, retrieved 4 November 2009
"SDI 40-4 - technical data". www.vw-m.de. Volkswagen AG. Retrieved 18 February 2010.
"SDI 50-4 - technical data". www.vw-m.de. Volkswagen AG. Retrieved 18 February 2010.
"SDI 60-4 - technical data". www.vw-m.de. Volkswagen AG. Retrieved 18 February 2010.

Now the truth in this...You wont be able to use the 1Z harness or ECM because its designed to see boost or a turbo and read the associated hardware w/ a turbo engine.

However I'm sure you can run a turbo and assciated hardware wiring and ECM, But I do believe you will have to change your injectors/nozzles and also look into your injection pump it may be smaller than the turbo'd engines.

You have a grey market engine, I think the block and head may be the same as a 1Z (1996-97 passat) or AHU (1998-99 jetta) any of these two breeds should mate w/ yours.

My opinion would be to stick it out, make it mechanical and ad a small turbo...I would now talk to Karl or Andrew.

I do have a TDI starter and adapter for the vanagon I would like to sell

Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:53 pm

Pic of pump will sort it out! Unless your side of the pond you had weird frwnkenmotors, it should have an IDI pump.

1Y is NA version of AAZ, if block has 1.9D/TD cast into the side in big letters , you put the AAZ parts on the block (think ones stamped TD have skirt squirted etc in them)

1Z is a tdi, 1Y is an IDI.

Did one of these a few weeks back, if you have the loom from the car, you can splice into the plug from the vanagon loom.

If not it's just as easy to use original wiring loom, same as JX etc installs from factory.

Wiring on the pump is easy enough to get round, black box on pump takes nothing more than a hammer and chisel, underneath the multitude of wires and epoxy packed case, there is one stop solenoid to worry about.

Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:55 pm

Oh, and 1z was turbo, if yours is NA, then it will be some variant of an SDI engine if it isn't an IDI engine.

Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:46 pm

Thanks a lot for all the help guys.
I thought this was gonna be super simple until I saw all those wires :shock:
Here are some more pics :

Yes the block does have D/TD cast into the side, and that exhaust if you can see it on the pics is a dual outlet mk1 piece not the single it came with.
Thanks again guys and I hope it really is as simple as hammer and chisel Charlie, I like these motors for their simplicity.

Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:39 pm

That's just a quick connector to all the sensor cables. There's no ECU involved when running your engine. You can either source that connector and reuse it (I would!), cut it away and make your own connector or manually connect every cable.

It's very pleasant to use a single point for all cables. Lowering the engine will be a simple task and no risk to forget a cable hidden somewhere.

Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:44 am

So does any one have an idea what vehicle this motor may have came from ?
Or at least a similar one which utilizes that plug ?
And so Charlie, you're saying that I just need to remove that black plug on the bottom of the pump and it should run mechanical ? (It's a stop selenoid?)

Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:48 am

rlevans wrote: So does any one have an idea what vehicle this motor may have came from ?
Or at least a similar one which utilizes that plug ?
And so Charlie, you're saying that I just need to remove that black plug on the bottom of the pump and it should run mechanical ? (It's a stop selenoid?)

I think you were correct when you posted. It's a 1Y (IIRC) basically a de-turbo'd AAZ. It's an IDI, indirect injection diesel.

That connector is a T24 and as svenkela says, I'd keep it. Pretty sure the T24 was used on a multitude of similar era VWs so you can go to a pick up and pull and get the car side. You'll need to move some pins around I'm sure but that's no big deal.

So you're other choices: 1) run it as is, zero turbo. 2) run with either a K03 or K14 turbo and leave the IP as is AKA eco-diesel or 3) run whatever turbo and find an AAZ IP with the fuel aneroid and basically make yourself an AAZ.

My choice would #3.

Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:21 pm

Thanks again guys
I think I will run it non-turbo for awhile and maybe try and source one later when I learn a little more about them.
My biggest concern was slapping the motor in only to have it not run or destroy the pump because of no flow (stop valves or some nonsense).
My background is my 81 caddy with the 1.6 NA which has been awesome but is completely mechanical (ok 1 wire for fuel shutoff)

Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:31 pm

Actually some of the 1.9 IDI engines DID have electronic timing advance control and yours is one of them...

You can see the little solenoid that controls the timing advance here:

It should also have an accompanying ECU in order to control the timing advance...

Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:53 pm

I've seen that same set up on numerous AAZs and none of them have had an ECM.

Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:58 pm

On all of those numerous AAZs what controlled that advance solenoid?

Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:15 pm

Andrew A. Libby wrote: On all of those numerous AAZs what controlled that advance solenoid?

I didn't investigate what was controlling them, just making note that I've seen that same set up before.

Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:17 pm

So, you didn't follow the wires or investigate the system in any other manner, but are stating with certainty that there was not anything controlling the solenoid. Interesting.

Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:26 pm

Andrew A. Libby wrote: Actually some of the 1.9 IDI engines DID have electronic timing advance control and yours is one of them...

You can see the little solenoid that controls the timing advance here:

[pump image]

It should also have an accompanying ECU in order to control the timing advance...

Hmmm... No ECU with the 1Y engine. That's an injection pulse sender and not a timing device. The timing device is behind the cap mounted with two Allen key screws.
The engine should be running without it. Here's a picture of a running 1Y, please not that the cable is cut off.
http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp125/boyofabeach/PICT1947_zps5cbc4ec3.jpg~original

Here's some useful info for 1Y converters:
http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=107034
(where also the image above is found)

1Y gives a lot more torque with a bit more aggressive timing, about 1 mm seems to be a value to aim for. If the engine knocks too much you have to back out a bit, maybe 0.90-0.95. Have a go and try it on the road. If you go down the turbo road you have to adjust after the new circumstances.
Here are some good values:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28

Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:47 pm

All the pumps that I've seen with that little bottom solenoid have a channel from that solenoid to both sides of the timing advance piston. One channel is drilled from the side of the solenoid to the spring side of the dynamic advance piston (which has a second channel drilled in the case up to the fuel inlet and so is not pressurized)and there is a second hole drilled from the center of the solenoid to the side of the advance piston that sees case pressure through a small orifice in the dynamic advance piston. When the solenoid opens the channel, the pressure on both sides of the dynamic piston is normalized and the timing retards. When the channel is closed, the case pressure builds on the one side of the advance piston and timing advances.

I don't doubt that an engine will run without the solenoid connected but the advance curve will not be correct.