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  View original topic: TDI PD130/150 intake manifold upgrade in AHU vanagon Page: Previous  1, 2
westyventures Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:17 pm

That setup is all custom - the exhaust manifold was flipped to get the turbo higher (AFN manifold) and 13mm spacer is between the manifold and head to allow it to clear the intake. It also clears the stock left mount although the steel bar got modified. This way the exhaust only had one short 90 before going into the cat and muffler. I will be doing the same on the next one but VNT20.

lloydy Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:24 pm

ah ok, makes more sense. cheers for the info

Zeitgeist 13 Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:26 pm

On my 15 degree mTDI ALH, in order to shorten the intake plumbing to its barest minimum, I'm thinking about flipping the turbo 180 degrees, so that the compressor is facing the front of the vehicle. I've also been planning on locating the AWIC just under the rear package tray, so the hot air simply runs directly into the unit via a short right angle tube, and then exits immediately into the forward facing intake. I've never seen this layout before, so I'm wondering if I'm missing any fatal flaws. I have a custom exhaust manifold, so the actual turbo is still TBD.

tjet Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:35 pm

I plan on replacing the original -15 turbo on mine with the -17 on my next timing belt change (or maybe I should just get the -15 due to the 350,000 miles on the motor)

http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=117&products_id=541

westyventures Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:35 pm

What manifold are you planning to use? I bought one of the aftermarket 'T25 flange' manifolds once, and saw no way would it be a good match for a TDI because of the excessive interior volume.

westyventures Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:38 pm

Good deal on that turbo. The 17 would actually be kinder to the hi-miles engine as EGT might be significantly lower.

luVWagn Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:44 pm

Off-topic to original PO, but how do I tell what manifold I've got on my AFN setup? I believe it is at 50-degrees (fits under the deck-lid), uses a bunch of original JX parts, started life as an mTDI, is now an eTDI, and seems to be running a KKK turbo (?).

I'd like to upgrade to a VNT-15 or 17 more suited to the AFN engine, and Lloydy had suggested this part:
http://www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk/tditurbo.html

However, I notice that it mentions useful for both types of turbos, and both AFN+AHU+1Z applications. Given that I've already got a waste-gate turbo in there, will I have any problems fitting a VNT?

And are VNT-17s at $850 the right way to go? Yikes, that smarts...

tjet Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:47 pm

Not to get too O/T, but here's a nice upgraded TB kit on for a pre-03 ALH. I've used this kit at 130k & 230k...

http://www.dieselgeek.com/ALH_TDI_Timing_Belt_Kit_p/tbk-alh.htm

westyventures Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:59 pm

luVWagn wrote: Off-topic to original PO, but how do I tell what manifold I've got on my AFN setup? I believe it is at 50-degrees (fits under the deck-lid), uses a bunch of original JX parts, started life as an mTDI, is now an eTDI, and seems to be running a KKK turbo (?).

I'd like to upgrade to a VNT-15 or 17 more suited to the AFN engine, and Lloydy had suggested this part:
http://www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk/tditurbo.html

However, I notice that it mentions useful for both types of turbos, and both AFN+AHU+1Z applications. Given that I've already got a waste-gate turbo in there, will I have any problems fitting a VNT?

And are VNT-17s at $850 the right way to go? Yikes, that smarts...

Those folks are using the JX/Quantum manifold which is what VW fitted to the original TD vans. Not a great choice in manifolds IMO and my testing. Best thing is the 1-piece VNT17 mentioned above or AFN manifold + VNT17 turbo. This, btw, is the setup used on the '04-05 PD TDI in the US Passat.
The 'kit' referenced above, personally I wouldn't touch it because of the manifold required and incorrect draining of the turbo oil feed. Plus it sits very low and has to drain into the bottom of the pan. Easiest path on an original 1.6TD JX converted van, but not one I'd use.
If you have a wastegated turbo now, the ECU will need modification and the N75 replaced with the VNT-specific part, plus minor plumbing changes IIRC.

tclark Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:57 pm

Just thought I'd close this out & try to be clear
about the parts required to swap in a PD manifold & optional EGR ...

Its kinda confusing since most discussions talk about the PD manifold in the context of
a vw passenger car install.
When reading threads most people say left, or right indicating the direction the 3 bolt intake is facing.
This assumes your viewing the manifold with the 4 cylinder intakes facing up & you can see the vw part#'s
just as it would be oriented when installed & bolted to the block.
This thread on tdiclub has very good pictures http://forums.tdiclub.comshowpost.php?p=2592878&postcount=7

From a vanagon perspective
The single large 3 bolt intake flange on the PD Intake Manifold that connects to your IC piping faces REAR of the van typical on ALH install
These terms are used to describe the same thing
Passenger side exit, faces the timing belt, left side,
and is one of these part#
038 129 713 AF
03G 129 713 B
03G 129 713 C
03G 129 713 BC

The single large 3 bolt intake on the PD Intake Manifold that connect to your IC piping faces FRONT of the van typical on AHU install
These terms are used to describe the same thing
Driver side exit, right side , euro passat, longitudinal
and is one of these part#
038129713AJ
038129713AG

The 3 bolt pattern on these 6 PD manifold comes in 2 layouts
This is the common pattern
038 129 713 AF
03G 129 713 B
038129713AJ
038129713AG
and then
This not so common
03G 129 713 C
03G 129 713 BC

----------------------------Install Notes----------------------------------------
When installing on the AHU you can go with
Manifolds 038129713AJ or 038129713AG but AJ is scarce AG is rdy available
in europe (England, germany, Bulgaria, Poland etc)


EGR Valve(038-131-501-AN)
-no ecu change required makes AHU near plug&pray replacement for the unobtaintium AHU manifold/EGR
-nice to have Dynamic EGR tune
-manifold side requires oval/slotting of 1 bolt hole
-IC pipe side requires flange adapter with 2"L/51MM diameter flared tube that the IC pipe will slip over (assumes 50mm IC tube could also use 57mm )
or
EGR delete 'race pipe'
-ecu tune required EGR delete or else 1403 cel
-there is hearsay that leaving the brass thread port open will allow ecu to be fooled no idea if true

If retaining the EGR valve it is *NOT* a drop in replacement but it is
simple to fab (max 2 hrs fab time), replaceable, inexpensive & compact so you can get on your flange adapter & IC connector

1) 1 bolt hole on the manifold side needs to be oval-led/slotted 1-2mm
2a) fab a 2 piece adapter flange & thread on the 1"-2"of 50mm(57mm optional) stainless pipe.
2b) fab a 1 piece adapter from 4"dia x3""Long aluminum round stock
turn down 2" 51MM drill out to 48mm, drill 3 bolts in the resulting
1" flange bonus pt flare the end done...
3) the existing EGR pipe(from intake to exhaust manifold) is clocked wrong you need to cut, clock, weld

if doing EGR delete just bolt on your race pipe
see here for mockup http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3600/f4487/produ...00.jpg?c=2
then get your tune to remove check egine cel light


Where to get the parts
PD Manfolds
you got sift since lots o euros sellers dont use part# in the title :(
tdiclub check out daniel, RWDsmoke, Ryan P
(conspiracy :twisted: they all chg. $130++ for manifold & $50 for egr delete race pipe sometimes more for pristine manifolds)
http://forums.tdiclub.com/search.php?query=pd130&exactname=1&forumchoice[]=16

[url=http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40|R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=vw%20tdi%20intake%20manifold%20-gasket%20-sensor%20-repair%20-038129713BC%20-038129713AP%20-059129713Q%20-048729713F%20-03G129713C&rt=nc&_pppn=r1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=20&_udhi]Ebay[/url]
[url=http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40|R40&_sacat=0&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=20&_udhi=&_nkw=vw+tdi+intake+manifold+-gasket+-sensor+-repair+-038129713BC+-038129713AP+-059129713Q+-048729713F+-03G129713C&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=2]EbayUK[/url]
fcsking form url post bs
or just
email [email protected]

** make sure you check your IC pipe tube size && know u want a PD130 Large Bore Intake, I made the mistake of just matching on ic pipe size and assumed all PD-130/150 3BOLT flange were the same :(
EGR delete connect to 51mm IC
Darkside 1.9 8v TDI PD130 EGR Delete / Race Pipe (51mm)

EGR Delete & connect to 57mm IC
Allard 1.9 TDI EGR Delete kit for VW Golf Mk 4 GT Tdi 130+150
uk forging

**try and order only Wahler/Perieberg **
EGR Valve 038 131 501 AN
Wahler, piersberg, all MADE IN GERMANY
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/vw-...01-an.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181047874038
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=371134874392


if anybody want a 40-120 deal(circa Jan2015)here ya go rnd done for ya
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271713384747
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131371574052
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111532385437
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=351032861507
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161535696020
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281474621476
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181405744788
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191459739451
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261532670611
NOS
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190882420859

tjet Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:03 pm

tclark wrote: ...
Where to get the parts
PD Manfolds
you got sift since lots o euros dont use part# in the title :(
tdiclub check out daniel, RWDsmoke, Ryan P
..

I got my PD150 intake from Ryan. It also came with a 6 speed :lol:

Ryan is a good guy

tclark Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:30 pm

I have had this running for a few weeks now..
Thought I'd just post the preinstall pics of the PD130 manifold before it was installed into the AHU


... some observations after running for 5 weeks
1) sorry for pic 1 blurred but you can see the fabricated aluminum adapter that allows the egr to connect to your silicone IC hose
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1318431
not burred but assembled
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1318430

2) I don't show but in pic 3 I also has to weld a boss to the pd130 manifold to allow the EGR cooler to attach same as the AHU manifold
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1318429

3) after install there are 0 codes thrown with a std AHU ecu

4) This is the 1st stage of an upgrade to move to much larger GT2052 TURBO
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=616878

This should flow better than the std manifold but what is noticeable compared to the std AHU Manifold/EGR is i have LOST some pickup acceleration ......
WHY ??
I am grasping at straws here, given that the PD130 intake manifold is
not that much bigger than the std manifold but is it enuff of a difference to increase volume but reduce intake pressure to the point that I am not making the same amount power...?
Thus only when I get the bigger turbo that I can get both a volume increase & higher pressure to create more power ?

if you have some theory here
1) bear in mind NO ecu error code are displayed
2) I ran with snap-on ecu software running while driving watching
Injection fuel quantity
Injection Timing
Boost

all metrics that showed expected vs actual where with in range

Also note the PD130 intake is much larger & would allow correspondingly larger IC piping than AHU manifold
Should I change the larger IC piping & make another adapter that can connect the PD130 Manifold/EGR to that larger IC piping

lloydy Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:12 am

Every change you make changes something else... Ive read on the tdi forums that people who swapped to the NA inlet (really big) did dyno runs and actually lost torque.
Cant see how it would effect us as our pipework between turbo and inlet is so much shorter than the car donor. I can't say I've noticed a difference myself, but i did swap the inlets over when my engine had a bent rod. So no back to back comparisons.
If you are going for a bigger turbo soon, thats when the pd inlet will come into its own



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