TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:28 am

The letters and numbers on Bosch badges were anything but random. I am hoping to build some information here, that will help in decoding possible application on some of the older badge numbers.

For example the 4 in VJ 4 BR 8 indicates 4 cylinder applications. I am curious enough to inquire what the VJ and BR indicate? It has been established that the R in VJUR 4 BR 8 indicates that a rotor with noise reducing resistor was originally installed. The U indicates a vacuum canister. I have a distributor badged VI 4 BR 8, one letter before the more common VJ, why the VI?

It is assumed that the last series of numbers indicates a version number such as 383 is slightly different and perhaps newer than 276?

Perhaps someone has seen documentation that might help in this endeavor? Some of our German friends may be instrumental in solving this little mystery?

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:32 am

I'm pretty shure the letter V stands for Verteiler, distributor in german, the next letter could be the manufacturing year (J stands in Bosch language for 1953) the 4 stands for 4 cylinder, right. Here is some more info about Bosch date codes
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279505

Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:32 am

The V= distributor makes sense. It is typically the first digit. I don't agree on the J being a date stamping as its found on all badges all years. The date code is typically stamped elsewhere on the distributor, most often near the oiler boss which is not tapped on VW distributors.

V= distributor (please confirm)
J=?
U= vacuum advance canister
R= noise reducing resistor installed originally
4= four cylinder application
BR= ?
ending numbers?

T at end = metal points dust cover

Then there is :

VE=
BRS=
ZV=
JCU=
PU vs PAU=
JFU=

Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:19 pm

You're only looking at VW models, there are may other and weird part numbers for non-vw.

Decode this ;)

If there's a pattern, it needs to be consistent.

Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:06 pm

V = Verteiler(german) = Distributor
U = Unterdruck(german) = Underpressure
4 Zylinders
That makes sense.
Don´t know about the rest.

Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:46 pm

After January 1964 Bosch changed their parts numbering system and at the same time their date coding. In addition the VW distributors started displaying both Bosch and VW part numbers. The post 1964 system is fairly easy to decode because with the exception of the last digit usually a letter the digits were all numbers. For example:

Bosch 0 231 137 009
VW 113 905 205 K

0 231 denotes distributor
137 denotes the type of advance mechanism employed by the distributor
009 denotes the version or application for that particular distributor.

In addition to 137 there were other sub group numbers each having a different advance mechanism modification. 147, 163, 115, 170,172.173,181 to name just a few.

113 denotes the VW model the distributor was installed in
905 denotes electrical ignition component
205 denotes distributor
K denotes the version for that distributor.

knowing this information may help in decoding the earlier distributors.

Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:15 pm

There are two distributors used by VW that are uniquely coded. They both are not surprisingly used in 1964.

The ZV/JCU 4 R 3 is the last of the cast iron distributors and was installed only on type III's. It displays the old part numbering system with letters and numbers.

The ZV/JU 4 R 3 is the first of the aluminum bodied distributors. It was installed on both beetle and bus in 1964.

The only difference between the two codes is that "C" found on the cast iron distributor. The two distributors are very different in all other ways.

Related to this topic are the last two VW mechanical only advance distributors. These are the famed 019 and 010 used for racing applications. The above distributors must have been reintroduced some time after 1964 since they have the newer parts numbers.

VJ 4 BR 8 = 0 231 129 019 first introduced in 1954 ended 1959
VJ 4 BR 25 = 0 231 129 010 first introduced in 1960 ended 1960

Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:15 pm

The "T" at the end of the part number meant the distributor had a metal shield installed inside, underneath the rotor.

Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:22 pm

tasb wrote: Related to this topic are the last two VW mechanical only advance distributors. These are the famed 019 and 010 used for racing applications. The above distributors must have been reintroduced some time after 1964 since they have the newer parts numbers.

VJ 4 BR 8 = 0 231 129 019 first introduced in 1954 ended 1959
VJ 4 BR 25 = 0 231 129 010 first introduced in 1960 ended 1960
They were "replacement" distributors.

VJU4BR8 = 0231 115 040

ZV/PAU 4 R 5 = 0231 137 005

Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:34 pm

That is one I had not heard before but welcome information. Where did you find that tidbit?

Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:38 pm

Here are the early discs

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=846653

Just as the R indicating a resistor built into the rotor and easily switched out the dust covers could be moved from one distributor to another without modification.

Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:39 pm

tasb wrote: That is one I had not heard before but welcome information. Where did you find that tidbit?
Because of the newer model numbers I know they were made after 1964. I've rebuilt a number of them and know they are identical to the ones with the older part number.

I also remember going to Motion Mini Car in Baldwin, NY back in the early 70s and being able to buy a 010 brand new for $30.

Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:08 pm

Thanks for your help Glenn, I was referring to the information that jamerick contributed about the T denoting points dust cover disc. I too can still vividly recall going to Warshawsky's ( now J C Whitney)in Chicago and finding 019's and 010's NOS on the shelf and at about the same price of $30.

Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:41 pm

So some codes it would be good to have translated, from latest to early:

ZV/
JCU
JU
VJ with V = distributor
JU with U= vacuum canister
BR
BRS
VE with V = distributor
F
AS
T = metal points dust cover

Some of the multiple letter listings may need to be separated but they do appear together on the badges.

Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:16 pm

I just finished a short PM exchange with a Samba member from France regarding a distributor he said was French Bosch. He stated that he assumed this because of the badge having French script. His initial assertion can be found in the date codes discussion on FAQ in this forum.

Why does a German firm like Bosch use French in their badge script?

I am certainly not a linguist. I do find this question interesting. There are some languages that are somewhat accepted as more technical is French one of these? There are a lot of Francophones outside of France. Is this a strong enough reason to have French on Bosch badges?

I do know that Bosch needed to partner with other countries between World War I and II in order to maintain enough production for the firm to remain solvent by getting around allied reparations . I have a 1937 date stamped distributor that I was told was off of one of the earliest VW's. Well, 1937 is pretty darn early for VW!

Lavalette was an established manufacturing firm in France. Bosch continued to use French on their badges as late as 1964. At that point, they switched to English : Made in Germany. Maybe this switch is part of the answer to the above question. Did it make financial sense to use French or English instead of German Deutsch? Was there a business agreement that forced them to use a language other than their native tongue?

If you have any thoughts or insights please share them. Any evidence would be greatly appreciated.