TheSamba.com :: View topic - 10 Degree Bus to Bug Trans Mount Question

Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:52 pm

With the 10 degree bus to bug trans mount that you can get at McKenzies or Kartec, do you still need to notch your frame horns to get CV clearance? Also, will I need to cut a hole in the rear package tray sheet metal and can this be avoided with some amount of body lift? Thanks

Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:35 pm

I wrestled with this conecept for quite some time.

Asked tons of questions to the point where the guys were getting ticked off at them

OVERALL... the end suggestion was to keep the tranny parellel with the shift rod parellel... this will ensure proper input geometry.

Clearance for Input
To mount either notch your shell or use a 3" lift kit.

Notching Frame Horns?
It's more like wacking them with a hammer and then gussetting them. Almost need to mount it to find the angle and clearance you need.

Unfrotuantley there's not a ton of info on this topic...

for what it's worth....
After researching for hours... we're putting on a 3" lift.... moving the shifter above the tunnel then using a Jamar super shifter.

I have a shell that we notched to fit the input shaft... abandoned this when we found out what it looked like...

T.

Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:09 pm

I'd really like to keep the shift linkage in the tunnel. I've read all the "back issues" on this topic and it seems like everyone runs into some type of problem or another. The only concensus I could find was if that you get the "good" $140 mount, you have a better chance of getting the linkage in the tunnel. I'd probably just stick with the bug trans, but the body is off and I have a good 091, so I thought I'd better do it now, rather than later after everything is tied together with the cage. Once I start cutting, grinding and welding just to see how the trans fits...I'm kind of committed to the conversion...good, bad or otherwise. Just trying to anticipate what I'm in for and if it will be worth it.

Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:16 pm

IF you're interested I'm ready to sell the coupler we used to notch the shell and keep the shift rod in the tunnel........ never used.. just for fitting.

PM me if interested....

T.

Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:41 pm

dude, look here....if you want to run that 10 degree mount you will need to do these few things:

1. grind/adjust the tabs that weld onto the rear of the frame horns till they fit nice on the frame horns . these tabs are what the rear trans mount bolt to, take your time and get it right on that one or it is a pain to get the trans in and out. good placement is the key here.

2. the front trans mount will bolt to the nose cone of the trans and run up to the torsion housing and weld on there. so its kinda importand to actually have the trans in location sitting on a jack or whatever and have everything lined up so the hockey stick is centerd in the hole to line up with your shift rod before you finaly weld the tabs/nose mount. tack it in and check it several times, get 'er right the first time. then weld the tabs and nose mount on. i had a stock nose mount(73 bug) that had to come off there so i could get to the torsion housing for a proper fit.

3. move the clutch tube over, i found it pretty easy to cut the clutch tube free inside the tunnel and push is over to the side till it would clear the side of the trans case and line up with the throw out arm, this is where you find out how much metal you need to clear out from the plate thingy that closes up the end of the tunnel where your tubes come out of(same place the hockey stick goes into the tunnel at) i dont know what that plate is called so i hope you know what i mean here...now my trans didnt come with the bowden tube bracket holder thingy so i had to make my own, worked out pretty slick and i dont have any binding(but i havent installed motor with clutch, so no pressure plate pressure to overcome as of yet) so i have no idea if the stock bracket thingy will work for you. if it dosent just P.M. me and i will tell you how i made mine, it easy.
so anyway, once you move the tube over you can put a few good spot welds on the tube to hold it there, i started with light tacks so i didnt burn through the tube and worked my way around the tube till it was held by like five tack welds and then laid a decent bead on the tacks, this was with 023 wire and little heat....try not to burn through becouse you have no way to clear metal out of the tube without replacing it. you should see a good place in the tunnel to weld the tube to, it is a plate/shelf that the tube was held to before you cut it free.

i would leave the throttle cable tube hanging loose till you have the motor installed with the fan housing on there, then you can see where you should weld the throttle cable tube to the tunnel innards. i havent gotten there yet as i am still cutting and burning steel on the chassis. so i really cant offer advice on that note.

4. you will need a u-joint type thingy (i used the u-joint McKenzies sells) to connect the hockey stick to the shift rod becouse of the angle you put on the linkage. what you need to be sure to have is length adjustability here. my nose cone ended up being closer to the front of the car than the stock trans sat, so to make sure i could adjust the linkage so it shifted how i wanted i made an adjustable shaft connected to my u-joint. this way i know i can get the length just how i like it and lock 'er down for good.

this mount kit isent hard to install, take your time and understand that the tabs and front mount are made to fit all bugs so adjusting/fitting will be necessary. mine looks like it is going to work great with my 002 trans.

spend a few minutes talking to the guys that are selling this product with general info on hand so you dont come off like an uneducated ass. the guys at McKenzies are cool people and will take care of you.

with the 10degree mount you dont have to run you shift rod above the tunnel, the 10degrees is what it takes to keep the linkage INSIDE the tunnel. thats why we love them :) the tilt that it puts on your trans will transfer to the motor putting it up in the air there by providing extra clearance in the rear. since this IS a baja the tilt shouldnt be a problem as you have "angle"proofed your carb, if not do so. the little angle this kit added is nothing compared to going down a steep hill.

i read that you are asking for a good mount, i really recommend the one that McKenzies sells becouse i have had nothing but good dealings with them. customer cervice is top notch and the guys there are cool as hell.
i have bought my shocks, trans mount(10degree) and the little stuff that goes along with baja building from them.
good luck man. :D

Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:53 pm

Tim10, what coupler did you need to use to "notch the shell"???

if he goes with a 10degree mount the mount will put the hockey stick in the tunnel and then it will line up with the shift rod.

there are a few hack job couplers out there, hell you can even make a pretty decent coupler out of two stock shift shaft couplers welded on top of one another to drop down to stock linkage from a 0degree mount yourself. what exactly is it you are trying to sell here?

Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:47 pm

Check out the build diary on Wes's site, he puts a bus tranny in his baja

http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/

Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:56 pm

Ft. Irwin 73Baja: Dude that was some awesome info! Thanks alot for taking the time to go through the process. I ordered the McKenzies kit last week and it's on its way. Just trying to get an idea of what I'm in for so I can get into it when my package arrives. I forgot to order the special coupler and the shift rod adjuster kit, but hopefully I can start on the trans kit install without them.

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:27 am

yeah you dont need the coupler to do the install, its easy to go back later and add the coupler and get the rod length right. the McKenzie kit comes with good instructions, you'll be allright.

Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:57 pm

We fabbed up the BajaWes coupler... I'd sell it to anyone for the cost of the parts..... and probably throw in some extra goodies....The stacked coupler is a ghetto way of doing the mount... the input shaft movement was about he same as the 10degree tilt.

My preference is to have the shaft perfectly aligned like the factory planned... it's amazing how a little slop will wear things out in exponential time. I'm with Brad, keep everthing square...

T.

Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:09 pm

I have one on mine. I had to open up the tunnel some for the nose cone. Trimming the inside of the frame horns was a pita but, not too difficult just time comsuming.

Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:06 am

Tim10 wrote: We fabbed up the BajaWes coupler... I'd sell it to anyone for the cost of the parts..... and probably throw in some extra goodies....The stacked coupler is a ghetto way of doing the mount... the input shaft movement was about he same as the 10degree tilt.

My preference is to have the shaft perfectly aligned like the factory planned... it's amazing how a little slop will wear things out in exponential time. I'm with Brad, keep everthing square...

T.
On my fibreglas DB I made a similar coupler/adapter. However, two couplers isn't tall enough. I cut the end off a spare shifter shaft and welded it into a piece of square tube. I then took one of the older type shift couplers and removed all of the rubber and the end that couples to the t/a. Once I had established the correct height I welded the square tube to the 'flange' of the older type coupler. The end of the cut-off shift shaft now enters the coupler on the 'hockey stick' from the bottom.
This method did still require one of the length adjusters, but I can not say if the shortened pan of the DB drove it exclusively or not.

As an Engineer i can appreciate the Force Vectors involved with an angled joint in the shifter linkage. I contend that while the wear on the hockey stick's bushings will be accelerated, that this is an acceptable thing given the intended use of the vehicle. In other words, so what if every 5-7 years you have to replace the bushes and the seal?
The simple reason the t/a in my DB is mounted 'flat' is because at the time I didn't know better.

Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:13 am

I installed the 10 degree bus trans mount and am having some trouble with the shift linkage. i have the adjustable linkage on the rod that uses the early style coupler. but it binds because of the 10 degree angle difference. the universal joint i got from mc kenzies is larger diameter than the shift rod, and will not fit through the forward mount bushing. I thought about using it as a coupler, but only one side will slide onto the hockey stick. the other end is drilled out larger. i have two different ideas on how i might be able to get it to work. just want some feedback about what you guys think might work best.
1st, the simplest i think. weld the late style shift rod end to the adjustable linkage. use the late coupler that allows for up and down movement.
2nd, weld a steel bushing onto the adjustable linkage. then weld universal joint to sleeved adjustable linkage. bolt other end of universal joint directly to hockey stick.
the universal joint will have less slop. but will it cause any damage since there is no cushion, as in the original coupler?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:09 am

I would modify your shift rod to accomodate the coupler. Mine shifts fine at the 10 degree angle and I think you need a slight amount of slop and flex to get it to shift right. The adjustment is kind of sensitive to get it right at first. In retrospect, I doubt I would use this mount again because you lose several inches of travel, which I didn't discover until later in the project. By shifting the trans up, you are putting extra angle on your u-joints, without getting any added travel. The limits of up travel are less forgiving, ie. body, fenders, etc. However, the install is pretty smooth, the shift linkage stays in the tunnel, and that's what I was looking for at the time.

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:06 pm

wow! i paid to have my 10 degree done.. along with a lot of other fab work being done to my ride..
cut the front cage and ball joint set up off
re fitt a chromolly front beam extended 6 inches forward. fodrill 4 inch over arms and spindles. king coilovers shock towers
rear shock towers for king tripple bypass shocks
rear pivots, rear torsion adjuster, rear shock towers, 3x3's. micro stubs .disk brakes and i think thats it? i should be getting it back next week.
i must be retarded spending this type of cash on a baja... ya right!
this is a before pic i hope to have afters o nhere soon!

keep a look out for my used parts in the clasifides

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:00 am

hey alli'm not a mechanic and i don't even weld. BUT from what i have heard is that you can fab a "cage" to wich the trans can be suported and lifted to fit in the type1. (i'm not totaly sure

Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:14 am

i got the shifter sorted out and works nicely. i went with the second option i mentioned above. i've found a couple things i dont like about the 10 degree mount, but with some engineering i think i can over come them. first, the mount that supports the bellhousing sticks below the frame horns. this could be caught on something offroading, so i plan on making some sort of tube frame along the frame horns, then attaching skid plate to that. second, with the motor tilted 10 degree, the cooling air inlet is moved that much closer to the body. i dont know if this will really cause any "choking" to the cooling fan or not, but the gap does decrease considerably.

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:05 pm

I mount the box in paralle and the nose goes through the lift kit and keep the shift rod in the tunnel, I use 2 stock cuplers welded one on top of the other, line them up after the box is installed mark and weld up, you will have to clearance the inspection hole for the cuplers, tack weld over the spot welds on the cupler and around the neck, these areas can let go
have used this system for close to 20 years and no problems yet

here is a pic 'sand is an option'

Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:59 pm

i found my 10* mount pretty painless. it took some time, but works great. i didnt notch the frame horns or the shell (no body lift either). i welded on the adjustable end into the shift rod and used the "early" (pre '65?) urithane coupler. no problems. stifts smooth. its not too hard to move the clutch and throttle tubes over! remember to re-attatch the ground strap trom trans to frame!

Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:35 pm

dunelimo wrote: I mount the box in paralle and the nose goes through the lift kit and keep the shift rod in the tunnel, I use 2 stock cuplers welded one on top of the other, line them up after the box is installed mark and weld up, you will have to clearance the inspection hole for the cuplers, tack weld over the spot welds on the cupler and around the neck, these areas can let go
have used this system for close to 20 years and no problems yet

here is a pic 'sand is an option'

Nice tip that looks very painless and if it works like you say " have used this system for close to 20 years and no problems yet " I am sold.............