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Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:12 pm

The threads on my case are buggered and some PO solution was to drill and tap the bolt for another bolt of about half the diameter of the original one. It takes a while for the oil to drain....

Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:20 pm

my59 wrote: The threads on my case are buggered and some PO solution was to drill and tap the bolt for another bolt of about half the diameter of the original one. It takes a while for the oil to drain....

That's a "last ditch" oil drain plug. Sold at FLAPS.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:17 am

raygreenwood wrote: I measured the thread depth on one of my cases at .518". Ray

Ray,

Not critical that the insert be flush with the bottom of the inside of the case. Preferred, yes, but not critical. The drain plug is a courtesy to make the removal of the strainer at "true bottom of case" less messy . . . :D

Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:26 am

Amskeptic wrote: raygreenwood wrote: I measured the thread depth on one of my cases at .518". Ray

Ray,

Not critical that the insert be flush with the bottom of the inside of the case. Preferred, yes, but not critical. The drain plug is a courtesy to make the removal of the strainer at "true bottom of case" less messy . . . :D

Oh I fully agree. I actually rarely do an oil change without removing and cleaning the strainer..... in the cautious belief that the one time you dont look in it....will be the time when the mystery metal chunk..... that was your one and only early warning to stop and correct....shows up!

I make this practice dead simple and leak free by adhering the gaskets to each side of the strainer itself (no RTV on the case or plate) with high temp, oily location RTV....like Ultra copper or ultra black. Put it on thin and clean, and clamp the assembly together loosely overnight. Oil the gaskets in the morning and tighten it up.

I typically get about 40-50k miles out of this before having to change the gaskets. It never leaks.

I just suggested to keep the thread flush....in case the owner did not have my ethic :wink: . Ray

Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:08 pm

Ian wrote: my59 wrote: The threads on my case are buggered and some PO solution was to drill and tap the bolt for another bolt of about half the diameter of the original one. It takes a while for the oil to drain....

That's a "last ditch" oil drain plug. Sold at FLAPS.

Thanks for the info. Naturally when I had the case apart for the rebuild I forgot about it...till it was all back together and in the bus.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:18 pm

my59 wrote: Ian wrote: my59 wrote: The threads on my case are buggered and some PO solution was to drill and tap the bolt for another bolt of about half the diameter of the original one. It takes a while for the oil to drain....

That's a "last ditch" oil drain plug. Sold at FLAPS.

Thanks for the info. Naturally when I had the case apart for the rebuild I forgot about it...till it was all back together and in the bus.

Been there done that. At least Type 4's have an actual oil filter and the strainer.

Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:57 am

Okay so finally had a chance to install the kit this weekend.

The kit was 113$ on Amazon with free shipping.

The kit part number is: 1415.

The time insert has not leaked since install. I put about 100 miles on her this weekend. I'll let you know if any issues come up.

Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:05 pm

To link to this post
Code: [url=https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7643214#7643214]Type IV (4) drain plug thread repair[/url]

Thank you for following up.
TIME-SERT M14 X 1.50 Metric Thread Repair Kit 1415
TIMESERT ® PROFESSIONAL THREAD REPAIR KITS METRIC SIZES

Tcash

Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:18 am

raygreenwood wrote: Amskeptic wrote: raygreenwood wrote: I measured the thread depth on one of my cases at .518". Ray

Ray,

Not critical that the insert be flush with the bottom of the inside of the case. Preferred, yes, but not critical. The drain plug is a courtesy to make the removal of the strainer at "true bottom of case" less messy . . . :D

Oh I fully agree. I actually rarely do an oil change without removing and cleaning the strainer..... in the cautious belief that the one time you dont look in it....will be the time when the mystery metal chunk..... that was your one and only early warning to stop and correct....shows up!

I make this practice dead simple and leak free by adhering the gaskets to each side of the strainer itself (no RTV on the case or plate) with high temp, oily location RTV....like Ultra copper or ultra black. Put it on thin and clean, and clamp the assembly together loosely overnight. Oil the gaskets in the morning and tighten it up.

I typically get about 40-50k miles out of this before having to change the gaskets. It never leaks.

I just suggested to keep the thread flush....in case the owner did not have my ethic :wink: . Ray

I rarely ever pull the strainer (after first 300 miles). In over 35+ years there have probably been very very few times that I've ever found anything (worrisome) in the strainer plate. And of those very very few times (able to count on 1 hand) the engine (T-4) was already close to or north of 100K.

When do I pull the plate?

1. After initial cam break in (~20 mins)

2. After first 300 miles

3. Drive and enjoy for many miles.

4. Perhaps a pull of the strainer after 80+K miles.

Prior to my last rebuild I pulled the strainer plate at ~ 113K and found a few very small pieces of what I suspected were cam bearing. I was already in the planning stage of my next build and had it apart within 6 - 8 mos. Once apart I confirmed that it was indeed cam bearing material. But I also confirmed that I very likely could have gotten another 40 - 50K out of it before I started to have any oil pressure issue.

Thu May 07, 2015 12:04 pm

It seems there where two choices. These all are available new. They where used in various VW models. So VW dealer or Aftermarket will have them.
M12X1.5 prt# 171 941 550
M14X1.5 prt# N 029 701 2 or prt# N 902 889 01

Quote: German Supply
" generally later engines with fuel injection - use a 12mm drain plug, some use a 14mm plug"
12mm plug
14mm plug

#79 Oil Drain Plug
Thanks to mayor ratwell.

Thanks to jerseylooker.

Don't forget to get a few sealing washers while you are at it.
C12X18 prt# N 013 805 1
C14X20 prt# N 013 815 6

Hope it helps
Tcash

Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:08 pm

I have an oil drain plug question, so I'll just continue in this thread.

I am evaluating a used engine in a 1974 Westy -- seems like the original CB engine, with dual Solex carbs and all. So, I adjusted the valves, and drained the oil, cleaned the screen, replaced oil filter yada yada yada...

But the drain plug that is in there is not stock. It look more like a plug fitting, with a square head. I am a bit concerned that whatever PO did this may have used some 'merican threaded thing, instead of metric, but it does seem to be really close to
M16 1.50-mm thread pitch.

Was this ever a standard size for drain plugs? I do not see it mentioned in the above discussions.

Even if it is not an original size, I expect I can make it work. I can get an M16-1.50 tap and clean up the threads, I suppose.

But where, or where to find a drain plug for it? I have spent a good bit of time searching for an appropriate bolt, to no avail. A simple hex-head bolt, M16x1.50, maybe 12 mm long. And ideas on where to find such a beast aside from going down to the Big City 2 hours away to the bolt and screw warehouse?

Last resort: Put the square-head plug back in. Is teflon tape or oil-friendly thread sealant advised?

Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:28 pm

You may have a 3/8" tapered pipe plug installed in place of the original plug. If the threads are decent it will likely work just fine. Many makes used tapered pipe plugs for the drain and fill plugs in transmissions and rear axles. Some small engine use tapered pipe plugs, and I suspect some automotive engines do as well, just can't think of one at present.

Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:58 pm

aircooled Time-Sert Tool Rental, 14 x 1.5mm

Wed May 28, 2025 5:35 pm

might as well add this here as to the sealing ring for the Type IV drain plug.

The original fiche comes up for the 14mm drain washer as N 013 815 6

However

If one searches it further the number N 013 849 2 also comes up as the drain washer and it is a flat copper washer listed for 1972 - 1979 T4 bus.

The first number only comes up available from the UK. If one goes by the Elring number for the original N 013 815 6 it comes back to the flat copper washer, although older stock on Ebay etc shows the copper crush ring style instead.

Looking at the Victor Reinz full gasket set, it instead uses N 013 829 3 which is also a flat copper washer these days, although many places that sell Porsche parts will list N-013-829-3 as the needed part, and it is aluminum or copper crush washer.

Anyone who knows the history on all these drain washer numbers feel free to chime in. They all look to me to do the same job. Maybe Robbie, Scott, or BusDaddy knows.

Wed May 28, 2025 9:42 pm

SGKent wrote: might as well add this here as to the sealing ring for the Type IV drain plug.

The original fiche comes up for the 14mm drain washer as N 013 815 6

However

If one searches it further the number N 013 849 2 also comes up as the drain washer and it is a flat copper washer listed for 1972 - 1979 T4 bus.

The first number only comes up available from the UK. If one goes by the Elring number for the original N 013 815 6 it comes back to the flat copper washer, although older stock on Ebay etc shows the copper crush ring style instead.

Looking at the Victor Reinz full gasket set, it instead uses N 013 829 3 which is also a flat copper washer these days, although many places that sell Porsche parts will list N-013-829-3 as the needed part, and it is aluminum or copper crush washer.

Anyone who knows the history on all these drain washer numbers feel free to chime in. They all look to me to do the same job. Maybe Robbie, Scott, or BusDaddy knows.

Just to add to the mix....the 411/412 parts book good THROUGH August of 1972 so it has the first of the 412's.....show a part # of N 13 805 1 and a dimension of "C 12 x 18".

Also in the Porsche 912 forum
https://www.912bbs.org/forum/threads/crush-washer-for-912e-914.59647/

Here is the Dorman link from that forum https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-17473-095-014.aspx

For what its worth....I will probably not go back to a crush washer on my engine when it gets off the ground. My reasoning....I have a copper flat washer on my Golf. It has 325,000 miles on it, gets oil changes every 5k and has the orignal copper flap washer and never leaks a drop.

The plug/bolt has a nice machined flat surface. The area the washer is clamped between on the pan is nice flat and smooth. I think if you can manage those two things a flat washer will work a good or better.

Here are the Golf washers

VW part: 14mm x 20mm x 1.5mm
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/copper-washer-priced-each/n0138492/

Victor Reinz
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-victor-reinz-parts/copper-drain-plug-washer-priced-each/n138492~vic/

Elring
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-elring-parts/copper-drain-plug-washer-priced-each/n138492~elr/

They alo have them for other new VW and BMW models in 12mm x 18mm.

They also have them on the same pages in aluminum.

Ray

Wed May 28, 2025 10:38 pm

FWIW, I recently ordered a Dorman copper crush washer for another application and when it arrived it was an aluminium washer that I had paid the price of a copper washer for.

Grrrr

Wed May 28, 2025 11:09 pm

Wildthings wrote: FWIW, I recently ordered a Dorman copper crush washer for another application and when it arrived it was an aluminium washer that I had paid the price of a copper washer for.

Grrrr
well with aluminum on aluminum there is less chance of electrolysis but then again the plug is steel.

I am using the flat copper one (N 013 849 2) because the ones I have that are aluminum are 12mm and my drain plug is 14mm. The drain plug and the case are smooth, and I used a little curil T on it to help with any sealing. Nice minty smell. :) If it doesn't seal maybe there is one in a VR kit I have.

Thu May 29, 2025 12:50 am

I live in metro nyc and just recently on a weekend , visited 6 stores over 2 hours trying to find a fairly standard Volvo drain plug crush washer. Auto one, Advance, Ace, pep, Lowes , Home Depot…all “ had in the warehouse and could get it there (Mon-Friday)

I finally gave up, went home, and spent the requisite hour to find my stash, still psuedo-randomly dispersed by my chaotic move of four households into one.

Thu May 29, 2025 7:22 am

you an aneal both alum and copper washers to remove the work harding and restore them to a softer condition.a propane torch will provide enough heat.ylu can also dress the washer with a piece of find sandpaper on a flat smooth surface .

Thu May 29, 2025 8:35 am

Abscate wrote: I live in metro nyc and just recently on a weekend , visited 6 stores over 2 hours trying to find a fairly standard Volvo drain plug crush washer. Auto one, Advance, Ace, pep, Lowes , Home Depot…all “ had in the warehouse and could get it there (Mon-Friday)

I finally gave up, went home, and spent the requisite hour to find my stash, still psuedo-randomly dispersed by my chaotic move of four households into one.
I feel your pain. There is a scene in Eugene O'Neil's Long Days Journey Into Night where O'Neil has gone to visit his parents. There is drug and alcohol addiction involved, and everyone is arguing, and yelling at each other in a totally disfunctional family. The end of one of the Acts is this scene where as everyone is arguing (listening to them was painful), and the father just leans over and unscrews the one lightbulb in the room that is on and the set goes dark whereupon the act and arguing is over. My good friend who has his PhD in Literature, retired from UCSD La Jolla now, loved the play, I hated it. Somehow the idea of a Volvo owner driving all over town asking if someone has a crush washer and being told, you can order it, only to end that scene by just going home and closing the garage door sort of reminds me of the play. I suspect the bean counters and buyers, who tell the stores it is Ok to carry 350 versions of flavored hanging air fresheners are the same ones that say don't ever carry something like a crush washer for a Volvo. I believe that the crush washer on your Volvo may be the same size as the VW one if it is 14mm.

lil-jinx wrote: you an aneal both alum and copper washers to remove the work harding and restore them to a softer condition.a propane torch will provide enough heat.ylu can also dress the washer with a piece of find sandpaper on a flat smooth surface .
I considered annealing it like the exhaust rings but the last one showed signed of crushing and it was not annealed. I may pull it off and anneal it anyway before adding oil today.