TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue May 19, 2015 2:37 pm

I would love a heated windshield for my bus. It was miserable for my 4 years in Ann Arbor with the weak stock heat exchanger blower. The BN4 makes it a little better, but mostly for interior ambient temps. The Vanagon windshield will ice up ina sloppy wet snow storm which we get a lot of here in the Cascades.

My G500 has a factory heated windshield which is awesome. It quickly demists without the megablower setting of most new cars. The wipers never ice up even in the worst storms and in the rain, the wipers wipe more effectivly once the glass is warmed up.

I'm definitly in for a heated front glass if there is a a group shipping effort being organized. Not interested in paying $1000 for shipping on my own though.

Tue May 19, 2015 8:08 pm

Folks, the issue were coming across is not IF we can do a group buy, we already have enough people to make this worth our while.
The issue were coming across is:
1) How do we collectively handle damage claims? What if one, or more of the windscreens is cracked or damaged in shipment?
2) How do we cover customs, port and brokerage (and associated fees)? Many of which will not be known until the time comes to pick up the windscreens at port.
3) Assuming the glass arrives to the U.S. safely, how do we handle separating out for individual shipment each piece of glass in a manner so as to prevent damage from occurring on the final leg from NY to "home"?

I'm open for ideas, and more than happy to do the leg work. The goal is to get everyone the glass they want and pay for.

Tue May 19, 2015 8:23 pm

It seems that Ron/Bus Depot is watching this thread, and they already do a lot of work with Just Kampers.

Is this something Bus Depot would be willing to help with?

Tue May 19, 2015 8:40 pm

I know Ron is watching ;-)

We were chatting in a similar thread over on Facebook.
His concerns are much the same as mine, and are iterated above.
I've bought many items from overseas, and am more than happy to cover customs fees and even assume risk for a purchase that is intended for myself, and only myself.

But, there is inherent risk to laying out brokerage fees (and associated fees with imports) in that I am relying on those individuals to reimburse me.
More importantly perhaps, is that while I am comfortable buying one (or even two) windscreens and paying shipping to port - I am then only assuming risk for myself. In that if something is broke I only have to work out logistics between myself and the courier. I will happily do the leg work so a few of us can get the heated windscreens largely because I want one. But, I want to avoid finger pointing if someone is unhappy with their own purchase/damaged goods.

I wish he would be able to work something out with JustKampers, I'd buy the window right now! lol I'd even drive to PA to pick it up! Heck. I'd buy a seal and just rope it in in his parking lot!

Wed May 20, 2015 5:51 am

I have seen group buys on other car forums, where it is agreed by those who participate that there is no implied liability. If know going in, then people can factor that into their choice to participate.

Given that most shipping these days can be insured, the risk seems low to me. The main issue, to me, is if something gets damaged in the transition between shipping mediums. At some point all group buys are based on some level of trust.

Not knowing Ron, but having ordered from is company in the past, I would also be hesitant to ask a business person to get involved without some tangible benefit for his company.

That said, he might be able to advise on shipping or other things.

As to the issues you listed;
1) Insurance on the shipping to USA. Quarantine the entire shipment until damage / insurance issues are sorted. If after that there are usable parts left, draw straws or work it out among the group participants.

2) These should be able to be estimated, this is the 21st century after all. Add in an estimated amount to the cost of each item when money is collected.

3) I think this is going to rely on whoever picks up the shipment from port. Include an estimate or know shipping handling cost when money is collected.

This is the VW community after all, those participating should understand where the potential risks are and if/when more cost is incurred they will have to deal with it. Basically we have to trust each other.

I basically see 5 maybe 6 units based on comments above. My guess is this is not enough for Ron, but we should be able to handle this ourselves.

Wed May 20, 2015 8:23 am

As obnoxiousblue said, we've chatted a bit over Facebook regarding this issue. I have orchestrated a number of group buys, both through the Bus Depot and before that as an individual member of the Vanagon List. (For example the Koni shock group buy here on the Samba that Ratwell handed off to me.) It's often safer and cheaper to have a willing vendor handle the group buy. Theoretically they will settle for a nominal profit since the items are pre-sold, and that markup is often absorbed by the wholesale supplier or shipper rather than being passed on to the end user, in the form of a lower negotiated cost (shipping discount, more clout with the supplier, etc.). The retailer may also assume some risk. For example, I helped with a group buy a while back on Westy front door panels. When they showed up, the color and fit were right but the pleating on the panels did not have the same zig-zag as on the originals. This detail was enough to cause a few of the buyers to demand a refund. I ended up refunding those buyers in full, reimbursing their return shipping to me, and negotiating with the supplier to obtain a partial refund for the majority that kept them. I lost my shirt on that group buy; it's a risk you take. (BTW new production of the panels now has the correct pleating. Fool me once, as they say... :-))

It is for the latter reason that I personally would not want to involve myself in this particular group buy. These are extremely fragile items - so fragile that Just Kampers and several other UK vendors refuse to ship them even within the UK (which is 1/2 the size of California), let alone across a continent. This is not because they don't want to sell product, it's because they've lost too much money due to shipping damage. If they've learned not to take this risk, why on earth would I want to repeat the same mistake? However, I can put forward some issues you need to work out if you proceed with this on your own...

1) What are the associated import costs? The ocean freight and import duty are the least of them. There can be terminal handling fees - often as much as or more than the ocean freight - that are added on the U.S. side and collected when the pallet is picked up. There are brokerage fees. And how about insurance? It is generally optional; without it you have no recourse if ten cracked windshields show up. You need a thorough explanation from the seller of what is and is not included in the quote. Maybe he is well versed in this and is giving you a complete quote with everything included. But if he is inexperienced with export to the US he could be unknowingly omitting some costs, which could result in a large bill due on pickup despite his best intentions. (If that happens, what is your recourse?)

2) How are these packed? I believe they originally come packed 10 to a crate. Is your supplier breaking them up and individually boxing them? If so, how well? The only way I know of to even possibly get an individual windshield safely across the country would be in a large box with form-fitting foam. Anything less than that is unlikely to survive being drop-kicked by the UPS guy. Such materials can be expensive in this size and in small quantity, and that assumes obnoxiousblue can pick them up. Shipping them to him would cost as much as shipping the windshields themselves, since they are even larger. (Maybe a local auto glass place would have some suggestions or alternatives.) Again, this cost must be estimated and factored in.

3) What if one breaks in UPS's or Fedex's hands after obnoxiousblue has reshipped it? I can tell you from experience that the carrier will often look for any excuse to deny a damage claim on an extremely fragile item, typically claiming it was insufficiently packed whether it was or not. (It's circular reasoning: if it broke then obviously it wasn't packed well enough.) The insurance bean-counter's job is to say no if in doubt. This becomes a battle that may or may not be won, as their terms and conditions give them the final word.

4) Since the seller is overseas, there is effectively no warranty. Just Kampers notes that these windshields are slightly narrower than stock so centering them is crucial. What if an end user has trouble getting one to fit without leaking, or cracks it while trying, or the defroster grid is defective? It should be clear that this is solely the buyer's risk, not obnoxiousblue's.

I am not saying you shouldn't do this, but I am saying that you would be well advised to make sure all of these questions are answered first. Then you will have the information you need to decide whether to move forward.

Wed May 20, 2015 11:28 am

Are they made in England or China?

If the latter, maybe a batch or 2 could be drop shipped to the US. Van Cafe or GoWesty on the west coast and/or Bus Depot on the east coast

Wed May 20, 2015 3:45 pm

I'm lead to believe these http://www.heatedwindscreen.com/acatalog/vw-t2-combi-van-clear-heated-windscreen.html#SID=520 are the heated windscreens JK supply, might be worth trying them too.

Wed May 20, 2015 4:12 pm

I have had 4 windshields that needed to be ground down to fit properly. that would be my only concern with these until someone trys to install one and give some feedback

Wed May 20, 2015 8:38 pm

Iain, the link you posted IS the ones were getting our group buy on.

Ron's post was spot on. For the record, I was on that group buy for the door panels too - mine, as he mentioned had the wrong pleats, but I kept them anyway! They were still night and day compared to my shoddy torn up old ones!
That and, if BusDepot did carry these, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it from them.
I understand, and appreciate retail mark up. Whatever the mark up would be - if this was a risk/venture for any vendor - is the reason they are in business. I'm almost ashamed sometimes of our markups at work!

So, I'm still waiting on a reply about shipping, port, handling and brokerage fees from the vendor. I'd like to try and lock that all down to limit my out of pocket on this end. Also, I inquired as to how the glass is packed in the crate to hopefully get a better idea (and some comfidence)

This is a risk I would be entirely willing to take of it was just a matter of glass for me. I would even be inclined to order two, as to limit my chance of having no glass if one should break.
Once I hear back from the vendor, together we can discuss the risk and who is still willing to move forward.

Fri May 22, 2015 8:32 am

About 9 years ago, I came across one windscreen wholesaler, whom I think was Uroglas, who also sold direct to individual members of the public. As far as I can recall, an electrically-heated front windscreen, for the 1968~79 VW Type 2, then cost just £150 in total, including 17½% VAT, carriage & insurance within the UK.

Uroglas, 2 Buntsford Park, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, B60 3DX, England.
Telephone +44 (0) 1527 577 477
Website: http://www.uroglas.com
Email: [email protected]

http://www.uroglas.com/heated.html

http://www.uroglas.com/tradesupply.html

http://www.uroglas.com/export.html

Fri May 22, 2015 9:01 am

I'd be in for three if the price is right. I can't believe no one in the US carries theses-there were many more Buses sold in the US than the UK I am pretty sure.

Fri May 22, 2015 4:35 pm

Porsche 4 cam Carrera GT's had them in about 1960-62. but I think they did not have heater boxes.
But a neat upgrade. If someone was driving from Bus Depot (in PA) to the Midwest they could bring 3 or 4 nested and I'd buy one in Iowa, or drive to Illinois to get mine.
1/4 the shipping cost that way.
Al

Fri May 22, 2015 4:36 pm

69doublecab wrote: Porsche 4 cam Carrera GT's had them in about 1960-62. but I think they did not have heater boxes.
But a neat upgrade. If someone was driving from Bus Depot (in PA) to the Midwest they could bring 3 or 4 nested and I'd buy one in Iowa, or drive to Illinois to get mine.
1/4 the shipping cost that way.
Al
Oh, never mind. With my ambulance fans, I've run out of places to put a switch!
Al

Fri May 22, 2015 11:17 pm

69doublecab wrote: Oh, never mind. With my ambulance fans, I've run out of places to put a switch!
Al

Get that drill out and get busy.
Here's mine:

Sat May 23, 2015 8:39 am

chicagovw wrote: I'd be in for three if the price is right. I can't believe no one in the US carries theses-there were many more Buses sold in the US than the UK I am pretty sure.

Given that the population of the USA is about 5x that of Great Britain, that would not surprise me in the least! During the 1970s, car ownership per person was also much greater and probably still is. As a child of the late-1950s & early-1960s, car ownership was quite rare amongst those who were not of the aristocracy or middle class.

Sat May 23, 2015 8:39 am

chicagovw wrote: I'd be in for three if the price is right. I can't believe no one in the US carries theses-there were many more Buses sold in the US than the UK I am pretty sure.

Given that the population of the USA is about 5x that of Great Britain, that would not surprise me in the least! During the 1970s, car ownership per person was also much greater and probably still is. As a child of the late-1950s & early-1960s, car ownership was quite rare amongst those who were not of the aristocracy or middle class.

otiswesty wrote: 69doublecab wrote: Oh, never mind. With my ambulance fans, I've run out of places to put a switch!
Al

Get that drill out and get busy.
Here's mine:

There are not many switches there! There is still room for a few more; including six Citroen Visa push-button switches, where the ash tray is situated! :D

Judging by the number of exposed ratchet notches on that hand-brake lever, the rear brakes and/or hand-brake cables need adjusting! :?

Tue May 26, 2015 8:36 am

I have a glass guy in SF Bay area who is willing to order 3-5 of them. I'll see if I can get him to post up here.

Fri May 29, 2015 8:47 am

otiswesty wrote: I have a glass guy in SF Bay area who is willing to order 3-5 of them. I'll see if I can get him to post up here.

I believe the electrically-heated front windscreens can be supplied with a top shade band (normally blue) for the same price, provided they are ordered as a batch. I wouldn't mind having one of these, dispatched to me from the UK supplier / manufacturer.

Fri May 29, 2015 9:47 am

A lot more interest than I assumed, but has anyone made any headway on this? I'm not willing to risk $600 on a broken part which cant' be used.