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Wed Oct 08, 2025 3:34 pm

Anyone have a cut away view of an engine showing oil level? I'm curious about oil level in heavy cornering.

Wed Oct 08, 2025 4:21 pm

IN my auto-x car I ran a 3.5 quart deep sump, and never had oil pressure light come on.... Never had any problem with oil pressure till I lost a valve cover vent hose (3-4 side), oiled down track and pumped all the oil out.... Actually got a little rod knock and had to have crank ground and new bearings, but don't consider that a real failure for a engine that went to 6-7 thousand RPM many times per weekend on tight twisty cornering.... And yes windage in crankcase tends to put a lot of oil into 3-4 side valve cover...
That is in about 5-6 years of racing....

Wed Oct 08, 2025 9:41 pm

Yes hard cornering can run the oil pump out of oil on a stock engine either direction, left or right turns. Been there, done that. The duration of the turn is the key. Short hard turns, no problem but long high speed turns... you bet!

Thu Oct 09, 2025 12:34 am

I managed it when the road surface camber changed on a shortish fast turn- flat out round a roundabout in my bus with a lowish oil level.. the roundabout was a fast banked right hander then the camber on the exit road was the opposite combined with a fast left turn..

Ok all about 20mph...

Thu Oct 09, 2025 5:15 am

A young lady I was "acquainted with" was looking for her first car. I asked her what kind of car she had in mind.

"One that has a light that tells you when to add oil like your sister has." was the reply.

"WHATTTT??!!!"

Turns out my sister knew the oil level was low in her type 3 when the oil light came on around the corners... we had a "talk!"... my sister and I!

Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:01 am

In my manx clone on long off ramps at higher speeds, my oil pressure gauge would drop really low. When I rebuilt the engine I used windage push rod tubes. Never had the problem again.

Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:03 am

Get a deep sump.

Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:06 am

Glenn wrote: Get a deep sump.
If you have enough ground clearance.

Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:23 am

oprn wrote: Glenn wrote: Get a deep sump.
If you have enough ground clearance.
Stock height does.

There's always a dry sump system if you're slammed.

Thu Oct 09, 2025 7:08 am

On my Bug I have a 3.5 qt deep sump, no issues when Auto-Xing. On the racecar, I run CB's 2 stage pump and a 6qt oil tank, again no issues. Both motors have the windage pushrod tubes and tray.

Thu Oct 09, 2025 8:12 am

i dont race... but ... I am a "spirited" driver. canyon and mountain pass roads are my favorite. long sweepers, super tight left and right handers... im in heaven. if the tires aren't squealing than we didnt carry enough speed into the corner.... :lol:

I have a 69 fastback , type 3 cooling , full flow with external oil cooler, and a 3.5 quart sump. i have run a windage tray in every engine i have built since 2004, and have never had a issue with running out of oil in heavy cornering. I wish i could run a Dry sump system, but that would either entail running an external oil pump mounted in a .... creative way, or going type 1 cooling to run a vw dry sump, but i prefer to keep the type 3 cooling.

I give you all that info since i dont really know what you are after.

Thu Oct 09, 2025 9:58 am

Glenn wrote: oprn wrote: Glenn wrote: Get a deep sump.
If you have enough ground clearance.
Stock height does.

There's always a dry sump system if you're slammed.

even just a mini sump could help.
I think I remember someone's engine build on here where they made a baffle in the bottom of the case. thats a great idea if you do a lot of cornering and have no room for a sump

Thu Oct 09, 2025 2:06 pm

BFB wrote: Glenn wrote: oprn wrote: Glenn wrote: Get a deep sump.
If you have enough ground clearance.
Stock height does.

There's always a dry sump system if you're slammed.

even just a mini sump could help.
I think I remember someone's engine build on here where they made a baffle in the bottom of the case. thats a great idea if you do a lot of cornering and have no room for a sump

I think you may be talking about what JimmyHoffa did in this thread.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=759751&highlight=windage+tray

I have been thinking about doing the "longitudinal" baffle like in that thread. The type 4 engines in some 411/412/914 had a factory windage tray that works pretty well for keeping oil around the pick up tube during cornering (mine has it) ....but Jake Raby noted that it's actually too restrictive in its drain slots and allows too much return oil from the PR tubes to get whipped up in the rotating assembly.

Other items that work very well short of and actual extra sump....is the "Tuna Can" sump. But....as well as that works....just too damn easy to shear off on a speed bump unless you build a guard for it.
The tuna can
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=d25de4342...try2858916

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/index.php?t193258.html

Ray

Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:28 pm

Australian Formula Vee rules don't allow for a dry sump , people just run a tuna can extension , windage trays and pushrod tubes and check the oil level when the engine is warmed up and running or straight after shut down , so oil is still pumped around the system .

They run for normally 10 minute races , 5000 -6000 rpm flat out . I doubt too many street VW's can out corner a front running Vee.

Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:30 pm

Wreck wrote: I doubt too many street VW's can out corner a front running Vee.
Street car < race prep car

Fri Oct 10, 2025 2:21 am

Wreck wrote: I doubt too many street VW's can out corner a front running Vee.
True enough but don't forget that body lean in a corner is a contributing factor. A V will have very little of that but a stock full bodied car sure will. It's like running on a side hill when you are in the corner.

Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:32 am

oprn wrote: Wreck wrote: I doubt too many street VW's can out corner a front running Vee.
True enough but don't forget that body lean in a corner is a contributing factor. A V will have very little of that but a stock full bodied car sure will. It's like running on a side hill when you are in the corner.

I agree with both of these statements. Having driven a shit-ton of miles all over the country in ACVW's....there are far too many urban "clover leaf" highway junctions with huge sweeping, uphill or downhill "out of plane" curves with high speed limits. I have seen the issue a few times....a quick blip of the oil pressure gauge needle at 60+ mph (just keeping up with the traffic).

Yes, some goes away when you get the suspension and body roll worked out.....but it begs the question, of how many acvw owners actually have this problem all the time but are too busy driving and paying attention to the road when it happens....and never see the blinking oil light?
I wonder what that does cumulativly, long term to their engine....say....2-3 times per month at moderate to high revs when you get 1-3 seconds of low or no oil pressure.

Maybe if there was a baffle system to prevent it from ever happening.....they might get another 50k miles!

Ray

Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:59 am

I'm still running the evolution of my slosh plate raygreenwood linked to but I also made my own CNC-machined, finned "tuna can" that lowers the oil pickup down into the sump circle area 1", and adds 0 ground clearance all while running the stock screen. It makes a much larger difference than the slosh plates. It uses an o-ring instead of gaskets to seal as well so oil changes don't require any new parts unless you want to refresh the O-ring. I'll be releasing it as a product soon, though it has a very specific use case. Most people should just slap on a slim deep sump. I'll be here for you weirdos who don't do that.

I really don't see any oiling issues doing fun stuff now. In the first picture I'm on the 6500r/min rev limiter backing it into a sweeping corner hard enough to lift the inside front tire and carry it through, which would usually cause me problems with a stock arrangement. Less G's than a Formula Vee of course, but both of the events in these images occurred lap after lap, probably about 20 times and everything went well. Look carefully you'll see I had a brave co-dawg in the passenger seat keeping an eye on gauges for me too, he knew that was his job.

Fri Oct 10, 2025 8:13 am

jimmyhoffa wrote: I'm still running the evolution of my slosh plate raygreenwood linked to but I also made my own CNC-machined, finned "tuna can" that lowers the oil pickup down into the sump circle area 1", and adds 0 ground clearance all while running the stock screen. It makes a much larger difference than the slosh plates. It uses an o-ring instead of gaskets to seal as well so oil changes don't require any new parts unless you want to refresh the O-ring. I'll be releasing it as a product soon, though it has a very specific use case. Most people should just slap on a slim deep sump. I'll be here for you weirdos who don't do that.

I really don't see any oiling issues doing fun stuff now. In the first picture I'm on the 6500r/min rev limiter backing it into a sweeping corner hard enough to lift the inside front tire and carry it through, which would usually cause me problems with a stock arrangement. Less G's than a Formula Vee of course, but both of the events in these images occurred lap after lap, probably about 20 times and everything went well. Look carefully you'll see I had a brave co-dawg in the passenger seat keeping an eye on gauges for me too, he knew that was his job.

Cool! Any postings/threads about your new "Tuna can" design? I would buy one!

Ray

Fri Oct 10, 2025 10:19 am

A few seconds here and there is no worse than a cold startup in the morning in my opinion. Remember it's not the oil pressure that protects the parts it's the oil film strength. That oil film is going to remain on the parts albeit for a fairly limited time.