TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Oct 10, 2025 1:34 pm

Would like to know what others have done with brake systems after adding a lot of HP. I know I'm opening can of worms, but moving from a 120hp N/A motor to a 250+ turbo is a big difference.

Currently running 4 wheel empi disc on 1962 convertible. Brakes are working great. Great pressure, pedal and stopping, just think I should probably upgrade considering the turbo motor will have considerable more HP.

1962 Beetle vert
2234cc turbo (Been running 6-12# on pump gas) But upgrading to E85 and shooting for 15# +

This is a street car.

Considering Willwood on 4 corners w/ 4 piston up front and 2 piston in rear. Drilled rotors

Appreciate any feed back good or bad from members who are running high HP street or occasional strip car.

Thanx, Justin

Fri Oct 10, 2025 1:53 pm

I went with empi 4 wheel disc and once fitted I'm happy with it. I'm sure there are plenty of options directly related to how much you want to spend!

Fri Oct 10, 2025 1:57 pm

Modify your driving skills and you don't need to spend precious dollars on brake upgrades... Braking is about speed and car weight, not how much HP is in back end...

Fri Oct 10, 2025 2:08 pm

Ghia disc front, Type 3 drums rear.

Fri Oct 10, 2025 3:56 pm

While I agree with Dale about driving habits, that wasn’t the question. The question was about upgrading brakes. Wasn’t about how much money I want to spend or save, it was about up grading my brakes.

Your tires and your brakes ultimately stop your car. I use HP loosely, most of us who are already driving with 120+hp know what’s gonna happen when we increase that to 250. That’s one reason we are making more HP in the first place.

I am just asking about real world experiences with other brake combos other than empi that may be better and worth taking a look at. I would rather spend 5k on brakes than 5k on interior. We all have different priorities.

Appreciate it.

Fri Oct 10, 2025 4:26 pm

My buggy started life with empi disc brakes front and rear, but I never considered using the empi pads. I replaced them immediately with EBC yellow stuff (off the top of my head) and they worked great. The rears took some fiddling to fit, but I'd do it again, if I had to.

Fri Oct 10, 2025 4:41 pm

EBC yellow was correct, wow that’s a lot of choices depending on driving habits. Some great info to dig through there.

Appreciate it

Fri Oct 10, 2025 4:45 pm

https://www.ebcbrakes.com/ebc-brake-pad-selector-tool/

Found this, great info

Fri Oct 10, 2025 7:46 pm

It’s been my experience that Ghia calipers will lock the front tires up just as fast as 4 piston willwoods.

Decent width tires with more contact patch seems to make the brakes work far better than the 135’s most guys run.

The EMPI rear willwood kit is just a tiny Ghia size caliper with a plastic willwood caliper shaped trim cover over it. The EMPI small single piston fronts are just a really expensive Ghia caliper. They even use the same size pad.

I would just do AC Industries kits front and rear, and a 20mm master, with as wide of tires as you can fit. An adjustable proportioning valve might let you tune it a bit also.

Brian

Sat Oct 11, 2025 4:52 am

I have EMPI front discs (not impressed!) and 944 N/A rears, stock bug master cylinder. The result is better than drums (higher peddle pressure though) but I would look for something better if I had your HP.

Also do not forget that tire height is a very important part of the equation! I am running 29" rears and 27" fronts.

Sat Oct 11, 2025 12:27 pm

I'm very happy with my type 3 pre 71 front calipers with type 3 drums on the rear, but then I've currently only got about 55hp.

There is a good book in the uk....

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/How-to-Modify-VW-Beetle-Chassis-Suspension-Brake-p/1-903706-99-8.htm

If you can pick it up in the US fairly cheaply I would recomend it, it starts with fairly basic upgrades but does progress to various options of how to fit porsche 4 pot calipers.

Cheers
JP

Sat Oct 11, 2025 2:34 pm

My method of upgrading the brakes is to remove 600 pounds of car and 400 pounds of load capacity.:lol: I built a buggy to upgrade the stock brakes. That said, if I had a ball joint Bug I would certainly upgrade to Ghia front disc brakes.

I would recommend considering your braking balance, including your front and rear tire sizes. A smaller diameter tire increases the percentage of braking force applied to that end because the tire is turning faster. In my experience you do NOT want the back end to lock up first, but the front end locking up way too soon also destroys controlled braking.

Sat Oct 11, 2025 4:11 pm

Have you checked out the CB disc brakes-lighter rotors.

Maybe call Geers or VW Paradise and see what they recommend since they do high hp.

Weight of wheels/tires take that into consideration too as well as the brake lines I like to use the ones that have a steel braiding then covered in a coating so dirt won't work its way in.

Then of course there is tire sizing and brake bias front to rear as suggested above as well as tire softness and pad compound.

Sat Oct 11, 2025 7:47 pm

Parachute. You need a parachute.

Seriously, I have Ghia brakes in the front and 914 brakes in the back. Got my 914 brakes from a racer who parted his high horsepower turbo drag car.

.
.

Sun Oct 12, 2025 12:41 am

Once you can lock up the front wheels and the back wheels, you dont need to go further with brakes- all that more power and speed does is make the black lines on the pavement longer and if the rears lock as well, probably not straight.

Sun Oct 12, 2025 5:21 am

Good read; https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-17615-9

Sun Oct 12, 2025 6:31 am

Brian hit on the most important thing, make sure you’re running a good front tire.

The aftermarket front discs will lock up the front wheels on Beetle in a hurry.

On my 65 I ran 6” Fuchs up front (and rear) with 185’s and could still lock up the wheels. Ghia calipers with vented/cross drilled rotors.

Also, just be smart…no need to open up a 250hp engine in a VW on a road with other vehicles in site.

At a drag strip, your brakes will be fine.

Sun Oct 12, 2025 8:43 am

txoval wrote: On my 65 I ran 6” Fuchs up front (and rear) with 185’s and could still lock up the wheels. Ghia calipers with vented/cross drilled rotors.

Depends on tire compound as well. Most street tires are hard as old boot heels.

Falken makes a DOT tire in a soft compound we use on enduro cars.

You can do a quick seat of the pants test to gauge grip. Stick the fronts on the rear. Give it a couple drag race starts but don't overdo it. You're just trying to get a chirp out of it.

No chirp equals more grip.

.
.

Sun Oct 12, 2025 10:45 am

If the car stops adequately with the power it has now, you've never been able to induce any brake fade and you're not changing the parameters of how you drive it or increasing the top speeds you expect to reach, then you don't really need to increase it's braking capability. Oth, if you start roaring around at higher speeds than before, then making sure it will stop from those speeds is imperative.

Sun Oct 12, 2025 4:40 pm

Dusty1 wrote: txoval wrote: On my 65 I ran 6” Fuchs up front (and rear) with 185’s and could still lock up the wheels. Ghia calipers with vented/cross drilled rotors.

Depends on tire compound as well. Most street tires are hard as old boot heels.

Falken makes a DOT tire in a soft compound we use on enduro cars.

You can do a quick seat of the pants test to gauge grip. Stick the fronts on the rear. Give it a couple drag race starts but don't overdo it. You're just trying to get a chirp out of it.

No chirp equals more grip.

.
.

Oh man.....even with stock brakes....the right pad compound makes a HUGE difference.

Back in the 90s, working on mostly stock 411, 412, type 3 and 914....where no aftermarket calipers were going to be added, a very solid upgrade with noticeable results was to switch to the easily available "Metal master" front pads and on the 411/412/ type 3 (all the same brakes).....a set of Mintex shoes on the rear. Same pads for 914 front and rear

Getting deeper into it and taking cues from the 914 guys doing combined autocross and street or street and track.....I learned more exacting pad compounds from Porterfield, HAWKS, Pagid,Textar etc.

I spent a while on a bone stock car that got driven hard....wishing for rear disk brakes to improve braking (I am finally building rear discs now)....but back then, just discovering far better than stock pads and shoes to go with my sticky tires, put the idea out of my head for a few years.

Ray