TheSamba.com :: View topic - Paint question: masterseries for whole car

Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:16 am

Recently gave up on my 73 SB body shell (red) - way too much rust, nothing solid to weld on to. Bought a 74 SB body shell (yellow) that just has "normal" rust.

I'm grinding the undercoating off the wheel wells now and patching rust spots.

Eventually I'd like to paint the whole body with master series, two coats of MS silver, then two coats of AG 111.

Priorities or durability and rust prevention. I spent much of my budget on the second body, so I'd like to do this myself and I'm not expecting a professional result. This is a fun family project and the boys want to move on to overhauling the engine.

So I'll take the time and effort to get a durable job, but honestly don't care about perfection in this case

Could someone please help me with the following questions? I did spend a few days reading through other posts and didn't see these specific ones answered. THANKS!

does master series silver require bare metal? specs say it can be laid down over old paint. current body shell has been sanded down to rough up old paint in most places. fenders and hoods are bare. wheel wells will be bare soon.

if it can be laid over sanded OG paint could someone summarize the process?

I planned to clean it and lay down MS silver. do I need an etching primer?

Thanks again everyone.

PS - decided against my original idea of POR-15 the whole thing, then hardnose topcoat, from a point of never wanting to see rust again. Just didn't seem the best way to go.

Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:20 pm

Spoke with folks at Master Series.

Painting over properly prepared original paint - scuffed and cleaned - is acceptable.

They suggested x2 coated of MS silver then paint of my choice (they no longer carry yellow), then their aircraft clean coat.

Something to think about while grinding...

Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:22 pm

I used Nason full thane.

What i did

remove all rust as able and phosphoric acid

epoxy primer all bare metal

Primer filler

2k primer sealer right before paint

2-3 coats finish , I didnt do a clear

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:03 am

I used Master Series products on my entire pan and wheel wells and bottom of the body - pics in gallery. Can't say enough good things about the product and the customer service both from Chuck and from the company reps. Having good "tooth" as they call it is the key for good application. When I did my wheel wells and underside of the package tray, there were areas that went to bare metal, and areas where the factory paint was still good. There was pitted rust and areas that I had to cut out and weld in new steel. Once ready to paint the Silver primer, I took an orbital sander with 80 grit and went over everything. Then I applied the two coats of Silver primer with a foam brush. The Silver primer is in effect an etching primer, as it bonds to bare steel very well. The transformation from what I was working with to the uniform Silver finish was inspiring. I also used the Black, Gray and Yellow AG-111 topcoats.

Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:53 am

Thanks! This is about what I was planning to do.

If I lay down the AG111 within 48 hours of the MS silver I don't need to scuff it up. So I'm planning to do that if I can.

I'll send post photos along the way.

Really appreciate it. Not sure I'd be willing to tackle this without the advice and knowing it worked for others.

Tom

Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:55 pm

thought I would share my experience with Master Series

I basically wired wheeled all suspension, beam, tunnel etc (pans were new). every thing was degreased as well. as far as body, I scuffed the entire underside and inside tub (mine is a Thing). I then shot with Master Series Silver. Sprayed beautifully.

The pans and full suspension were then top coated in 2 part Dark Blue Por-15.

bottom of body, fender wells, trunk and inside tub were top coated with grey Herculiner.

I did not spray exterior though. I let shop handle exterior paint.

It has been 5 years since all completed. Has held up well. of course, weekend driver and stored inside

Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:15 pm

Update. Primered the whole car with MS Silver. By brush. Except for back seat and wheel wells, which were done with some left over POR15. Undersides done as well. And really hit the interior areas - like inside heater channels - with rust protective paint also.

Just a few places to finish. Took 3 quarts of MS Silver. Requires usual sanding afterwards.

AG111 top coat is next. Many of their colors are no longer made. But they have the one I wanted. Photos soon.....

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:48 pm

ToughBug wrote: Update. Primered the whole car with MS Silver. By brush. Except for back seat and wheel wells, which were done with some left over POR15. Undersides done as well. And really hit the interior areas - like inside heater channels - with rust protective paint also.

Just a few places to finish. Took 3 quarts of MS Silver. Requires usual sanding afterwards.

AG111 top coat is next. Many of their colors are no longer made. But they have the one I wanted. Photos soon..... I am getting ready to prime my completely bare metal Ghia. How has the paint job held up? Do you have any pictures? It's been a ferw years since the last post on this thread so I'm hoping for some longevity data.

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Emil

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:18 am

I dont have any longevity data for you. I was on the phone with Chuck from MasterSeries last week and he told me he uses the MasterSeries grey primer instead of epoxy primer/sealer and goes straight to high build primer then paint. He just sprays in on. When it goes over any bondo you may see some bubbling as it pulls the moisture out of the bondo when the MasterSeries cures.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:21 pm

My pan and wheel well's look as good today as they did when I first painted them. On the body, no issues with the Silver over any filler areas, and the BC/CC on top of the Silver primer also looks like it did when I painted it.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:51 pm

Thanks guys.

@beetlenut: You are one of my primary sources of information. I have read many of your comments in various threads on the subject. I can't think of a reason not to use it instead of epoxy but in another thread several people including Mike Fisher said it was not the product to use on the body exterior but no solid reason was given. I don't doubt the product, I just don't want to use it on the exterior if there is a reason not to.

@Canghia: Did Chuck happen to mention what high build primer he uses. I rather not bother him if the answer has already been provided. Did you ever paint over the MS Silver you put down on the body?

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Emil

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:23 pm

Evil_Fiz wrote: Thanks guys.

@beetlenut: You are one of my primary sources of information. I have read many of your comments in various threads on the subject. I can't think of a reason not to use it instead of epoxy but in another thread several people including Mike Fisher said it was not the product to use on the body exterior but no solid reason was given. I don't doubt the product, I just don't want to use it on the exterior if there is a reason not to.

@Canghia: Did Chuck happen to mention what high build primer he uses. I rather not bother him if the answer has already been provided. Did you ever paint over the MS Silver you put down on the body?

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Emil

Well thanks Emil! Epoxy and MS are two different products, but IMO both can be used for protection under and over body filler and sealing the metal for paint. I liked the MS because it used the humidity in the air to cure, and you could use foam brushes instead of spraying it on. That worked better for me as I finished sections of my car over time. I painted a Urethane BC/CC over the MS Silver primer on the body, and was very happy how it sealed the body filler, both under and on top.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:16 am

Chuck at MasterSeries did not give me a specific brand that he used over top of the MS silver but he told me that he did use a primer and then a top coat. He was suggesting that you could use the MS silver as a sealer instead of epoxy.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:23 pm

Ive done many cars with MasterSeries silver primer as a base. Sandblast or strip the car totally, spray on 2 coats of the MS on both inside and outside of the car. Air and moisture will not go thru this paint and therefore no rusting. Then Dupont primer and Dupont or Nason topcoats. Have done them for years. Never any issues. Chuck

Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:04 pm

vwsplitman wrote: Ive done many cars with MasterSeries silver primer as a base. Sandblast or strip the car totally, spray on 2 coats of the MS on both inside and outside of the car. Air and moisture will not go thru this paint and therefore no rusting. Then Dupont primer and Dupont or Nason topcoats. Have done them for years. Never any issues. Chuck Thanks for the details Chick. Rather than PM you additional questions I'll post them here to enhance the thread.

- By primer do you mean high build primer? If so what DuPont line or product number have you had success with?

- I have done a combination of home glass bead blasting and chemical stripping of the entire body inside and out. I also coated the bare metal with Eastwood After Blast. The After Blast sounds to be similar to the metal prep from MasterCoat. i.e. Phosphoric acid and detergent for post-blast cleanup. Do I need to hit the metal surfaces with 80 grit or is the Phosphoric acid etching enough for the MC silver to bite?

- Can the AG-111 be scuffed and painted over

My plan is as follows:
- Do all required bare metal prep, conditioning, and cleaning
- Apply two coats of MS Silver to the entire car, inside and out (probably spray)
- Apply 2 coats AG-111 Grey to all underside surfaces, wheel wells, trunk and engine compartment, and all but the visible parts of the interior
- Apply filler where needed then another coat of MS Silver to seal
- Apply high build primer
- sand, rinse, repeat primer
- Seal the primer with? (MS silver or SPI epoxy?)
- Paint. (Haven't decided on AG-111 red or BC/CC)

Thank you all for your time and responses. Any and all advice and corrections are welcome. I want to do it right the first time.

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Emil

Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:37 am

Can I join in this conversation? I am stripping my car down to bare metal. Since its still too cold out to work in the garage (unheated) I hauled fenders, hood, etc down to the basement and citri-stripped, then sprayed Rustoleum self etching primer on the pieces in preparation for warmer weather and a paint job. Body is still awaiting work.
Too late to put this Master Silver on the fenders and pieces I have already done? Strip or sand the primer off back down to bare and then Master Silver? Not a show car here, but I do not want any more rust. If I could just leave the primer as is and put the silver over that as a sealer, that would be cool. Let me know what you guys think, I have time and sand paper.

Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:33 am

bomberbob wrote: Can I join in this conversation? I am stripping my car down to bare metal. Since its still too cold out to work in the garage (unheated) I hauled fenders, hood, etc down to the basement and citri-stripped, then sprayed Rustoleum self etching primer on the pieces in preparation for warmer weather and a paint job. Body is still awaiting work.
Too late to put this Master Silver on the fenders and pieces I have already done? Strip or sand the primer off back down to bare and then Master Silver? Not a show car here, but I do not want any more rust. If I could just leave the primer as is and put the silver over that as a sealer, that would be cool. Let me know what you guys think, I have time and sand paper.

The Silver is a great primer and bonds very well to bare metal. If you put it over the Rustoleum, the Rustoleum would then be the weak link. At worst, if you sanded with an aggressive grit to give it tooth, and happen to go through to bare metal in spots where the Rustoleum didn't adhere as well, that would be a better option than just putting it directly on top of the Rustoleum.

Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:35 pm

Ordered a quart of the silver this morning, after trading emails with Chuck I ordered another quart, and some gloss black. The rustoleum was probably a waste, he said its thinned down so much to get it to come out of the rattle can that there isn't much paint going on. I will sand it down so the silver can go on the bare steel. All it will take is some sandpaper, and time.

Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:40 pm

The extra effort and better product will be worth it in the end. Two coats of the Silver, which is self -leveling, will put a pretty durable coating down.

Here's pics of the Silver primer, and AG-111.

Silver

AG-111

Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:07 pm

What I do most of the time is to apply the MS silver primer. Wait about 3 hours, then apply a second coat all with a Harbor Freight spray gun. Then another 3 hours and apply either a urethane based primer sealer or epoxy primer sealer. From there on it is just getting it ready for topcoat. Have used over the years Dupont and Nason with great success.