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Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:22 am

So, I know the traditionalists will hate it but I am putting a powerful type 1 in my 356 and keeping the original engine.

So, does anyone know what flywheel/clutch and starter I will need? planning to convert to 12v anyhow.

Its the original 741 box that I will have rebuilt. Just not sure how to combine the flywheel to a type 1.

Thanks

Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:22 pm

Hi. You may want to contact the guys at FAT Performance, Orange, Calif. Ron Fleming and Greg Aronson. I recall it might have been Greg who built an outlaw 356, using vw power, either type 1 or 4.
Bill.

Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:07 pm

Also contact Greg Banfill at Vintage Warehouse. He put a type 1 in his 356. Here is a link to his car. I think page 5 or so is the swap.

http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?...3835119dd4

http://www.vintagewarehouse.com/

Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:18 am

Thanks guys. They are both using type 1 transmissions whereas I want to use my original Porsche transmission.

Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:31 pm

The VW engine will bolt straight to the 356 transmission. There's really no problem. The TO bearing is either guided or not, chose a PP accordingly. You'll have to have a 6 volt fly wheel to mesh with the Porsche starter. If you don't want to buy a hybrid 12V starter. The 6V will work fine. Others will say that you'll wear out the fly wheel teeth but I've never had that problem. Zims sells a high torque starter for just such a swap. I've done this twice and never had a problem with the teeth...

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:44 am

Cool, so what clutch do you use? The vw version or the Porsche version?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:21 am

Until my neighbor recently found and installed a 356 engine into his 356C, he ran a 1600DP VW engine in it for several years. Ironically, had to sell him an extra VW pressure plate/clutch, as the Porsche pressure plate/clutch would not work with the 356 engine in the 356C, whereas the Porsche setup worked with the VW engine in the 356C (WTF?).

Go figure.

During that period, he referred to his car as a "Vorshe".

Hoping to buy the 1600DP and put it into one of my projects...

Best,

Thom

Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:45 am

i'm wondering why the 12 volt vw flywheel won't fit the 356 trans. we use to put 12 volt vw's in 6 volt vw's all the time. only a very small amount of grinding to the inside of the clutch housing was necessary. i'm also wondering about the starter, if the 12 volt flywheel fits then a vw 12volt starter should work. I believe that there is a difference in the total length of the clutch and pressure plate between vw and 356. I believe the 356 is more by a small amount though.
Jay D.

Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:42 am

So do I use a 6v or 12v vw flywheel?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:22 pm

Well, there are at least a few thing to consider.
1- The flywheel has to match the crank, and have the end play set.
2- The teeth on the flywheel need to match the corresponding teeth on the starter drive.
Badsix, vw had non o-ring flywheels and o-ring flywheels. This area of the flywheel correspond to its matching area on the crank.
Flywheel's can have the ring gear replaced. It is a machine shop job been done for over 30+ years.
My opinion is not many purist's want to grind out the bell housing of a 356 trans to use later 12v/200mm parts.
This obviously has been brought up before. I'm not an expert in the relationship of the vw to 356 parts.
But, some may think there is a difference between a 180 vw pressure plate and the Porsche 180 pressure plate. I'm not sure.

How's this idea. Can a vw 6v/gasket flywheel, that bolts to the 356 crank, be modified via a good machine shop to accept a 12v ring gear and/or 200mm clutch? I truly think this has been done.
The items that should not be changed are the crank and bell housing.
Hope this helps, Bill.

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:42 pm

wow, didn't realize how complex this can be...

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:56 pm

actually, all I need is to find a starter that will work in the Porsche transmission but to a VW crank on the type 1 engine?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:50 pm

In using the VW engine with stock flywheel/clutch assy, just use a VW Auto-Stickshift starter SR 17X, and adjust the floor pan if needed.
Also check for clearance in bell housing for 12volt flywheel. The clutch
release bearing should be ok withe the VW clutch. Go for it.

Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:33 pm

above ^^ do this, I believe the clutch housing only needs to be ground in a few spots. and it's very little maybe an 1/8 in. this way you use all vw parts and all 12 volt parts. and no purist will ever know. besides I don't think we are talking purist here, after all the op is putting a vw engine in a 356 that's enough to make a good purist puke.
Jay D.

Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:37 am

So do I need a special starter as mentioned above or will a standard 12v starter work if I grind the bellhousing?

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:34 am

If you use a standard VW starter, you will have to change the bushing in
the bell housing. The best bet is with the SR17X as it dose not require changing
the bushing.

Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:09 am

brilliant thanks

Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:53 am

badsix wrote: above ^^ do this, I believe the clutch housing only needs to be ground in a few spots. and it's very little maybe an 1/8 in. this way you use all vw parts and all 12 volt parts. and no purist will ever know. besides I don't think we are talking purist here, after all the op is putting a vw engine in a 356 that's enough to make a good purist puke.
Jay D.

I've done this a couple of times, and I just used the flywheel to "machine" it's own clearance.

As you begin to slide the engine into the trany (I always hang the engine with a lift through the engine opening) you just turn the engine over with a 1/2" ratchet on the pulley nut. The hard steel teeth will easily (without any damage to them) machine off the tiny amount of alloy that needs to be removed. Remove a little -- take a couple turns on the mounting bolts -- roll the engine over again. Repeat until it is all the way home and turning without resistance. Then undo the bolts, slide the engine back out, and blow out the tiny amount of chips and you're done.

This method is great because it removes the exact amount that needs to be removed, and no more. Both times that I did it, only a few .01"s had to go -- hardly even noticeable.

Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:07 am

Getting the engine to bolt in is the easy part. The sheetmetal, throttle cable and heater boxes are a bigger pain. You will have to fab up metal fillers to fill the massive gap around the engine...including above the bell housing. The doghouse outlet will need trimming around transmission hoop. The air seal is on the engine of the porsche, but on the body of the vw... you will have to fab a seal to fit. The heater boxes will probably have to be installed after the engine and may require trimming or hammering near the outlet area. The throttle cable is just a huge pain, because of the angles involved. It is not an afternoon project to do it properly.

Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:55 am

Understood, thanks.

I am using my normal restorer for this. Absolutely understand it isn't a straight bolt in and means a lot of fab. My target is to make it look oem whilst making it reversible.

We will see